A Surveyor’s Guide to Forrest Fenn’s Treasure Poem


hello and welcome to a Gypsys kiss the
vlog I’m Shelley Carney and I’m Toby Younis stick with us a couple of seconds
and we will tell you everything that we know about surveying and we’re back so we had a false start
that’s why we’re a little late but we’re here now sure the folks on Facebook one
o’clock mountain Daylight Time is different now so how are different so
hopefully everybody’s catching up with us
and we have man in the barn and Eric Schmidt and rick plank here already so
we know that some of you’ve got our notifications and we’ll just be waiting
for the room to fill up but let’s get started all right so what we’re gonna be
talking about today is the relationship between what we think of as the poem and
surveying and I’m gonna tell you a little story about how I got this far I
was doing some research last week and saw some touch points that helped me to
make those connections so I want to talk about them today but before that let’s
do some housekeeping thank you to our moderators today so far we have man in
the barn and Jimmy fast and perhaps Joel Lewiki will show up soon as well thank
you gentlemen once again for being here today with us to keep our chat on the
straight and narrow we appreciate you being here thank you very much for doing
that for us mm-hmm today’s presentation will be
followed by an open Q&A yeah let’s make it open I mean I think there’ll be a lot
of questions related to the subject matter today but I think we can make it
open and just keep it active so and we don’t have any schedule anything after
this nope just our usual okay all right so we can keep it open for a while
that’s right so moving ahead tomorrow 1:00 p.m.
Wednesday March 14th special edition of liability of the treasure finder let’s
hear about that okay so first of all I wanted to thank Jimmy fast for causing
me to think about this as an opportunity because he brought up some really really
good points about the comment that I made in last week’s just the facts the
question that you asked me was how will we know when
treasures been found and I expressed my opinion on that matter and then I
expressed an additional opinion about what I thought the liability of a
treasure finder who did not announced the fine might expect and that created I
call it a firestorm it probably wasn’t a firestorm but that created a lot of
conversation in the comments below that chat and I thought well let’s you know
what I’ve been saying that for years I haven’t I have spoken to a lawyer but
didn’t get clarity on the subject and so I thought let’s talk about it and with
any luck if you happen to know an attorney who specializes in liability
law and Veit them to the conversation maybe we can get clarifications I have
reached out to a couple of friends who are attorneys and asked them they they
are criminal law attorneys and they take on defendants so they need to turn our
follow you up a little bit Erika says all right hang on let me move
this over see the monitor talk to me Mississippi hello and welcome
and we have just received $20 from Virgil cane thank you Joe cane thank you
very much make sure you ask a question before the day is out all right Eric let
us know if that’s loud enough I’ve pushed it so that it looks normal on my
screen but I can’t tell how it’s getting out there so just let me know I’m
starting to hear it in the background so I don’t want the other thing that I
don’t want to do is that I want to make a an echo for ya so anyway back to what
we were talking about so tomorrow at 1 p.m. I’m going to open up the live
stream for about an hour and I’d like to talk about this and I’d like everybody
to come in express their opinions I’m not sure that we can get to an end point
without having an attorney that specializes in this kind of law but at
least we can talk about it and I think it sets a precedent for us when we do
find I don’t want to call it conflict but when we find differences of opinion
on these matters maybe we can actually debate the
specific opinion so that’s what I’m trying to do with tomorrow all right
tomorrow evening at 7 p.m. we have a panel discussion with Cynthia Meacham is
our special guest and we’ll be talking about the blaze Cynthia we called her a
couple of weeks ago because we know she was being very active and she just
established her own blog and so we called her and asked her if she’d be
interested in appearing on the program now I had promised you that we would
have 4 panel members unfortunately I found out since I made that announcement
that Shawn Danson won’t be able to join us he lives up in northwestern New
Mexico and they had a plant closing in a town other than his so he’s going to be
tied up with that from the 12th through the 22nd so he will not be joining us my
calling will be joining us for it and I have a special surprise guest that I’ll
be able to introduce you to tomorrow and 1:00 p.m. on Thursday March 15th we’ll
have the Forrest Fenn memoirs book club the thrill of the chase chapter six my
Spanish toy factory we’ll be covering that chapter and
giving our analysis and as I said in my intro this chapter is intriguing because
it’s only two pages long and actually like I said it’s two book pages long
it’s probably a single typewritten page but I think it has some information
that’s important and I think it reinforces things that we’ve learned in
other chapters I’m sure eventually we’ll get to that chapter entitled my war for
me which is a big chapter takes up the biggest chapter takes up 20% of the book
and I think what we’re gonna have to do when we get to that point is probably
break it up into sections and do it over several episodes of the show so so let’s
get on to this whole surveying thing and let me tell you how I got there back in 2013 I discovered the blog called
mountain walk written by Richards Sagnier
is I believe I don’t I don’t believe he pronounces it in the French
Sonnier is a native southern Colorado and northern New Mexican as he describes
himself I’ve put the link to his website down below and I strongly recommend that
you go visit his website if you haven’t already and read some of the material
that he’s written he started writing in 2011 and it was very specifically
written as a result of his interest in the Forrest Fenn treasure I believe that
he and Forrest actually communicated with one another because I remember
Forrest making him comment about how much he appreciated his writing skills
and and he really is an excellent writer one of the best natural writers he’s not
a writer by trade he’s a specialist in forestry spent most of his life and
raised his family in South America biography I want I won’t go through it
he’s got a really interesting biography so he was writing this mountain walk I
was going through it he writes you would write these long very deep if you will
blog posts but you had a sense he had a real handle on how this was all going to
go and like I said I know for us thought
very highly of him because I heard him speak of him at least once maybe more
than once and he always spoke of him you know you know in a very appreciative
respectful way so if nothing else go read his blog well last week I was doing
some research on an upcoming show that we have regarding the comment on 8.25
miles so as usual I wanted to go find the source for that comment and that
comment or that thin note is actually a comment that was made on a posting on
sunny airs blog that was made April 16 2012 and there’s a comment below that
that has that has the the 66,000 links forest fan quote now we’re gonna be
talking about that next week because we think it needs to be talked about but I
don’t want to give away anything right now anyways so as as I was going through
the post I noticed the title of the post is
forest in land surveyor I’ve put the link to that particular post down in the
description box to look below so you guys can go and read it yourselves but
but he makes reference to the idea that finn might have an understanding of land
surveying based based on things that are called meets and bounds and we’re not
gonna do a meets and bounds class here and as a reference
he uses a a section from a biography of osborne russell and in that biography
there’s a note that osborne Russell had actually established his own piece of
land owners owned the piece of land based on his surveying of that land and
the description of that Osborne Russell property is written in this blog post
and I’m gonna read it to you just because I thought it was interesting for
a variety of reasons that I that I thought were interesting and maybe
you’ll feel the same way so I’m gonna have to look at the screen to do this
this is the Osborne Russell land claim that was made that was what do they call
it when they take it to the clinic or that was there’s a word for this
somebody tell tell me what this word is when you go and you give your land claim
to the people at the County Courthouse so they know that it’s your claim
submitted so that’s something like maybe it is registered something like that
that doesn’t sound right I’m sorry well Eric Schmidt can you give
me so I’m gonna go ahead and read it you’ll see it on the screen situate and
beginning at the fir-tree three feet in diameter standing eight hundred yards
southwest of the falls of the North Branch of the Lucca my you to River and
blazed meaning the tree was marked with a blaze on the north and east sides that
means there’s two blaze marks on this tree one on the north side of the tree
and one on the east side vents and and vents is an important word in land
claims because it means what what it continues what it follows crossing I’m
sorry it’s vents running north six hundred
yards to the stream vents crossing the stream and running north eleven hundred
and thirty yards to Three Oaks each six inches in diameter it’s standing
together on the side of a mountain one blazed on the south and another
blazed on the east side vents running nearly east one mile to an oak tree two
feet in diameter is thence south twelve hundred yards back
to the stream then crossing the stream and running nearly south five hundred
and sixty yards to an oak tree twelve inches diameter is and blazed on the
north and west sides that oak tree thence west to the place of beginning so
when when Osborn Russell wrote this I’m assuming I’m assuming that he probably
surveyed it himself since he had survey experience he knew how to describe a
land claim and as a result he used verbiage in this claim that is common
today so I went and found modern land what they call legal
description of real property oops I’m gonna go first what I wanted to do
was talk a little bit about if you were to sketch this out and this is a very
rough sketch of Osborne Russell’s claim you can see it starts at the waterfalls
goes to the fir tree crosses the creek goes to an oak tree then East
I’m sorry West to another oak tree south again crossing the creek to another oak
tree and back to the starting fir tree now each of these locations has a
purpose in a land claim let me describe them to you so this location the
waterfalls is the point of commencement and you have to have a starting point
whenever you do a land claim it could be another you know a physical object like
these waterfalls or it could be another marker of some kind that had been placed
by the federal government now the federal government has a kind of
different way but a universally accepted one of describing land and they call it
the geographic grid system and and the grid system divides the United States
into what are referred to as townships which are 36 miles square and then six
miles up and six miles down and then each one of those squares is subdivided
again down four times over each time so eventually you can find a point on that
square as a starting point and they’ve all been marked in the United States
with but various markers so you can always find a far of a starting point
using the grid system now when he did this in 1845 the grid system hadn’t
migrated this far west so he had to use something that he expected was going to
be there for a reasonable length of time in this case the waterfall now he he
went from there to the first fir tree so the waterfall is referred to as the POC
or point of commencement he went from there and he measured to what is
referred to as the point of beginning the point of beginning
is where the definition your legal definition of your land can’t claim
starts and they all have those they all have those definitions appoint the
beginning then he goes off in a particular direction and distance in
this case the direction was north he crosses the stream and he goes to a fir
tree now another name and the surveyors name and the legal name for this fir
tree is called the monument and in just a moment I’m going to show you examples
of other monuments so ok I’m sorry you’re right it is no trick it did go to
an oak tree I even made the picture so this oak tree for him was a monument now
I’m going to show you in just a couple of minutes some examples of other kinds
of monuments then he went west to another oak tree
I almost said another fir tree when it’s not is it then from there he went south
for about the same distance that he went north crosses the same creek again and
then goes to another fir tree and oak tang nebadon and then back to his point
the beginning which is a fir tree so he defined his plot of land but he did it
using some things that are common tools surveyors tools when they write the
descriptions not draw the diet while they use it when they draw the diagram
but when they write the descriptions of these things and I started thinking well
you know there’s some of these features if you will aside from the fact that he
used blazed over and over again and you know when we go back when I go back to
the you know he uses he uses his point of commencement is a waterfall
then he blazes all the dang trees he crosses a stream and and then goes back
to his beginning so the difference between what we find in a land claim in
a legal description of a land claim is that it closes it’s a closed space a
closed two-dimensional space and on a map of course and it always returns to
the point the beginning otherwise it’s not it’s not a legal land claim now it
may be coincide that your point of commencement and your point of beginning
are exactly the same thing so if you start in an easily
identifiable benchmark at the corner of one of the you know US grid system then
your point of commencement and the point of beginning are gonna be exactly the
same and they’ll say that the point to commencement begin is at the point of
beginning and then you start describing distances and directions from there now
when a surveyor uses this terminology they call them meets and bounds and the
meets are the numbers the distance and direction is the balance are what you
run into assuming that there are other people’s property that you’re going to
be you know that you’re going to be coordinating with so one of your meets
could be running 1,100 feet to the eastern boundary of Adam Smith’s
property and thence from there to another location so those are the
balance when they refer to the bounds but this is a very common way to use
this language so I named God I wanted to look for a contemporary legal
description of land and you can see that they use almost the same verbage
commence meaning the point of commencement at the northeast corner of
the east half of the west half of the Northeast quarter of Southwest quarter
of section 17 Township 1 north so they’ve actually used a monument that’s
on one of those grids that are defined by the US geologic grid system so that’s
his starting point as that and then range west runs south zero degrees Oh
three minutes eight seconds east 20 feet to the south right-of-way line etc etc
and so he gets them first to the point at beginning he gives them the
dimensions of the plat of land and then finishes up at the bottom to the point
of beginning so so Osborn Russell was doing this in a very a way common enough
that is it is still used today so it was obvious that he knew what he was doing
just by the language he was using so there are different kinds of monuments
that you can use so one monument of course can be a geographic an object
that’s part of the geography that you expect that’s going to be there a long
time now eventually as your land plat has approved you would
replace that with another monument a stake driven into the ground for example
or some of the monuments that you’ll see is your traipsing around the mountains
are these concrete I don’t know what would you call it it’s not a pole it’s a
concrete stump I don’t know it’s a monument post post there you go so and
it’ll have a little brass marker on it and the other kind that you’ll find are
the ones that you see that the geodetic survey markers that are brass and stuck
in the ground we had one when we visited Colorado that was basically a piece of
rebar and it was topped with a plastic orange top but it was very visible you
couldn’t very visible you couldn’t go by it without saying oh that must mean
something must be another of those markers and then when I was hiding our
treasure up in that area about six months later three months later whatever
it was I noticed another one of those markers so whoever’s doing the ranging
and marking up their they’re using that rebar with the bright fluorescent orange
top upon it so you have those survey monuments so the question then becomes
oh I wanted to point out that as I was thinking about this it reminded me of
the conversation that Shelley and I had regarding the the sticks the sticks and
shells puka shells that the marshal Islanders used to map directions and
distance to the various islands the shells represented the various islands
the sticks represented distance and direction and then there was other
information like waves and waves you know Direction height and speed that was
all incorporated but it reminded me very much of that so it struck me that this
is a universally acceptable way of describing how to get from one place to
another so the question then became how does that apply to the poem so I took
the second stance and the reason I took the second stanza is because phen has
told us that the first clue in the in the poem is began it where warm waters
halt and I made a comparison between this idea that I would have a point at
the beginning they would have a direction
that I would have a distance and at the end of that I would have a monument and
it works out now I did the rest of the poem but I’m not going to talk about it
here you’re gonna have to do that yourself so you can see if it works for
you these are just my thoughts as applied to the first stanza the problem
with all of this is it leaves out some things so what’s missing what’s missing
is the equivalent of our waterfall or the Palms waterfall the point of
commencement we know that the point of beginning is warm waters halt well we
don’t know exactly how to get there so we don’t have the point of commencement
the question is what is the equivalent of our Osborn Russell waterfall and
here’s the conclusion I came to it’s open for discussion but it seems
reasonable so like everybody else after Finn said that the first the first clue
was beginning where warm water salt I started not ignoring the first stanza
but finding ways to keep the first stanza out of my way and we actually did
a show on how the poem we did a couple of shows actually on how the poem was
put together and we realized that some of the content in that first stanza had
to do with legal ownership of the poem Fenn was describing it to himself but
I’m starting to wonder if the first stanza may not contain the point of
commencement we know where the point of beginning is we and part of our struggle
is as we all go through is getting to the right point of beginning so maybe
there’s something in the first stanza that we’ll have to discover ourselves
that tells us what the point of commencement is and I think what the
point of commencement is in this case in the case of the poem gives us a place to
go it gives us you know foam palm up foam which is the combination of fan and
poem Fenne has often said that the individual
who goes to find the treasure to recover the treasure will go there with
confidence and part of that confidence is knowing that where you’re going is
actually the right location so I’m starting to wonder if the point of
commencement it doesn’t tell us not exactly where to start where to start as
warm water salt but where to commence where where do we get a start from
before we start following the clues in the poem my thinking and if you look at
it as I have gone alone in there and with my treasures bold I can keep my
secret where and hint of riches new and old and so that’s not in the poem but
it’s got to be someplace else so the someplace else came as I reviewed
some offense quotes regarding the book and here’s one that he’s Betty says
commonly here’s what I would do read my book in a normal manner then read the
poem over and over and over slowly thinking and read my book again this
time looking for subtle hints that will help solve the clues we’ve all heard it
we’ve all read it we try always to follow it whether you’re committed to
the accuracy of the poem eventually you feel like you you need to have the book
in order to get hints that relate to it then later on and mysterious writings on
in August of 2016 somebody has to question and I thought
it was an interesting question they said if in 500 years if a person has I’m
sorry I left a word out that should be all if in 500 years if all a person has
is the poem and no backstory they don’t know quote in the Rocky Mountains north
of Santa Fe unquote or that there are nine clues etc could a person have
reasonably just used words in the poem and find your treasure chest and they
sign thank you till they nope so it struck me that the
question that he was answered asking was very specific to the book
in the book before Finn publishes the poem he talks a little bit
about it and in that book he says there are nine clues and in that book he says
in the mountains nor he doesn’t say Rocky Mountains in the book but he does
say in the mountains north of Santa Fe so the two questions that this gentleman
asked are in the book and he asks could I do it with just the poem meaning could
I do it without the book and Finn says nope he doesn’t say that you can’t do it
without the book what he says is you you can’t do it with a poem alone so
obviously there are things in the book that we need to know and it struck me at
that point why do you need the book I think you need the book to give you the
hints required to find to locate the point of commencement and the point of
beginning especially the point of beginning where warm waters halt the
point the hint that drives you to the point of beginning is some place in the
thrill of the chase and that’s why you need not only the palm but the book
after that I suppose there’s arguments about what you could what else you mean
you know a map etc etc or what else you need in order to find it but I think at
a minimum you you need the poem you need a surveyors mindset and you need the
book and oh by the way the concept of traveling from one point one monument to
another monument by time by distance and direction is very common to one other
kind of person that fenya is and there’s a picture of them on the thrill of the
chase the pilot because what a pilot does is they find their point of
beginning and they fly to the equivalent of a monument by a distance and
direction because what that gives them is
and what what enables them once they have time they can calculate their fuel
expenditure and so those are all important to them so not only do these
kind of rules apply to surveyor they apply to a pilot a pilot would make
sense of all this if a pilot were to read and I’m sure they have not I don’t
know that every pilot has or to read a contemporary legal definition of land
they would get it immediately because those are all concepts that are familiar
to them and they’re comfortable with so alright you’re up very nice so thank you
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keep our channel healthy so yeah are we ready for your QA thank you ready I
think so let’s go to Q&A all right look your full screen all right so we’re
gonna say hello to everybody yeah if it goes up too high there you go
all right mine starts a little late no no no our program starts at 1:00 p.m.
oh you mean on your phone yeah just usually thanks okay all right that’s one
man in the barn says hello and good afternoon Eric Schmidt says greetings
Rick plank hello from Cincinnati an average person hey all and let’s see
Ryan low hi everyone good afternoon from Colorado SeaMonkey fication hello Jimmy
fast thought maybe you forgot daylight savings unfortunately we can’t forget no
wait no we like daylight suicide oh I like daylight sorry sir we just don’t
like the bouncing back and forth anyway um we just had a small glitch in the
startup that we you know it was it wasn’t it wasn’t bad what had happened
is the last time we did a live stream we did it at Facebook yeah and I forgot
that I had to we established my livestreaming
connection to youtube so so we started on Facebook we thought we were live and
we weren’t yeah well we were alive but we were lying on Facebook Oh
anyway Amy Smith hey y’all I’m here good hey how are you doing Shane McLaughlin
where’s the treasure we know but we can’t tell you we be the treasure
journeyman hello Tom McGinty good afternoon Susan heck and my Bible she
didn’t get a notification oh did you anyway
mr. must click the Bell don’t click that I have those little quote marks around
your Bell crow Dudley hello from southern Indiana
Virgil Kane hi from Iowa Paul wood hello everyone John Gould greetings all John
York hello everyone quest geek hello AGK Jeremy Milstead hey
y’all Mary green hello AGK and all virgil came with his twenty dollar
donation to super chat Thank You Virgil we really appreciate it mm-hmm Steve
Smitherman high roll tide B cross bill cross greetings
let’s see Shane McLaughlin you know what I did the same thing I popped out chat
and I’ve lost the top half of the huh the chat oh speaking of which we’ll go
ahead why don’t you go ahead with your well I’ve hit the part words I can start
seeing on my own okay all right if you need that one you can take that no I’ve
got I’ve got one here it’s just like I said okay they went back we’re on Shane
McLaughlin but force Ben likes complicated it’s going to be the
opposite of what we would assume by human psychology I really think you hit
on the reservation yeah well that wouldn’t do anybody any good
nope you pissed off Native American because that means if you’re not Native
American you’ll never own it actually it means of you’re Native American you
won’t own it because it belongs to the tribes right so a couple of things while
Shelly’s looking to greet everybody wow that looks so loud to me a couple of
things number one I didn’t put the chat panel up on this video and the reason is
we’ve I don’t know if we qualified but YouTube has seen fit to give us the
light live chat replay feature on our videos from this point forward so
although you don’t see it on the video we got back that screen space you will
see it after YouTube processes the video and you’ll see it play if you’re
watching it on a desktop you’ll see it on the right side of your screen if
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for that oh and don’t forget if you have a
question for us use the @ sign gypsy so it pops out and we can see it make sure
you’re asking us a question odious soul hey hey watching from a
train headed for New York oh I love that train are you going from Washington I
used to make that trip pretty damn regularly Alan Kay sound is good but
Shane McLaughlin how big is the blaze big enough to see when your boots on the
ground but not big enough to see from Google Earth Wow look at you miss
searcher blaze know-it-all we’re gonna talk more we’re gonna talk more about
the blaze tomorrow night with Cynthia Jael greetings and salutations from
North Dakota Wow he’s coaster mm-hmm and Shane McLaughlin why did he say Spanish
toy factory not just toy factory what’s the association and we’ll talk more
about that on Thursday to watch that on Thursday figure dinner
you’re way ahead on those questions all right
Mary green hit it on a reservation makes very complicated indeed jeremy Milstead
because he made marbles and yo-yos whilst in Spanish class and Matt Spanish
class right miss Ford was his Spanish did you say hi to Susan heckle Laurie
James says what happened to Sonia oh so Richard so he kept the blog going
until 2015 and he was still working and he had gone
out yeah as a matter of fact you’ll see the last blog post that he made in 2015
tells you what happened but I’ll share it with you he had gone out to show some
some friends of his or some acquaintance of his some property and they were
standing on the edge of a downslope not quite a cliff but a steep slope and he
went to step on what he thought was a stable rock on the edge of the slope and
it wasn’t and when he put his weight on it it tipped the rock and he went
sliding down the slope tumbling down the slope for about 40 feet and in the
process he broke his right leg in several locations so he describes all of
that in the final post on his blog there are no posts after that but I do know
that eventually he retired from his work and he and his wife moved to Arizona
where they presently live I haven’t I haven’t followed up for about the past
year so I’m assuming he’s still alive living in Arizona with his wife has
retired Forester alright I don’t know where this is coming from but Shane
McLaughlin says why did he pray to Thor that is odd and way out there I was
thinking garden of the gods in Colorado when I read that part we’ll get to that
point in the book eventually I’m sure Rachel Kane says I sold a building lot
off a 40 acre piece on meets and bounds yep and then they’re all wondering the
correct word it was registered filed deeded filed a claim recorded I think
that’s a recorded that’s it recorded you recorded at the gated
County Courthouse for that for your property okay so Jimmy fast is the
winner congratulations Paul would do you think Forrest put the
chest in water or underground and I wonder if he put wax on the chest to
protect it what is so important about 1932 Thanks
well let’s see so as so we express our opinion on these matters and I’m sure
they put other people in the room I do not believe it is placed in under water
and I we do not believe it is buried we believe forests accurately describes
where the treasure is when he says it’s hidden and what’s important about 1932
was the end of the depression I don’t I don’t know I you know if that’s one of
those things that you found in the book that you find interesting I couldn’t
tell you he’d be 2 years old sure wasn’t an interesting time for him so I don’t
necessary I don’t know what’s important about 1932 I am bouncing into the red
over here I’m just really worried that I’m blowing everybody else okay well
let’s see if it says anything about our loudness anybody think we’re too loud
Adam thought he thinks you look great tonight
he’s in the UK so he is tonight oh okay he’s probably drinking you having
teacher-man yeah so Adam probably has candle lights and my money every watches
this program I’m sure he does all right so how far up are we on that have our
down are we in the question I suppose okay well Erik says
Erik says to Paul he has said it’s not under water yeah Shane McLaughlin again
I personally suspect that Finn has a property title in the box too something
nearby the location of the chest like a hidden little property he never told
anybody about you know I’m not sure that I agree with you Shane but I started
thinking to myself remember that story that he told and I can’t remember
exactly where he told it about the dr. pepper and how after calculating his
land he came to the conclusion that he owns two acres and then he describes
very carefully how he could put if he wanted to dr. pepper
under a stone in the river and I thought to myself maybe what we ought to be
doing is looking at all the county courthouses for a recorded deed for a
piece of property that’s twelve by twelve by you know 12 inches by 12
inches by 12 inches by 12 inches so I mean maybe there’s something there I
mean I had the thought after I you know started preparing this presentation that
maybe there’s something there maybe he maybe he’s got a land plat for the the
two acres that he thinks he owns because you could do that you could make a legal
claim on that property and that’s where you hid the treasure and that you know
it’s his property it’s his treasure I suppose that would either create a lot
more questions or not Shane McLaughlin kind of like Lewis and Clark go back to
the starting point yep Virgil Kane the acreage inside of
the meats and browns would be described as more or less such as 100 acres more
or less Susan Hagen libel thanks for sharing
this information very interesting and relevant and Adam body says hi hey you
see with the wine and the candles and Brian Eagle says pile on when we were
talking about the post you know well that’s interesting because it could very
well be but a pylon is something related to flight pylons our flight related
let’s see Shane McLaughlin does anybody remember what shape if any that for spin
mentions often maybe it could be a hint of the geographic layout for the quest
didn’t somebody do some research on that and came up with didn’t obelisk doesn’t
this fan have views look up go to Terry scans and look for obelisk I kind of
remember that Jimmy fast at the bookstore video friend
was moby-dick ins if you followed the clues precisely would you make a loop I
guess he was asked he was asked if he followed the clues precisely would you
make a loop he said no without giving too much away right
so I’m I’m not I don’t mean to imply by my presentation today that you would be
if you so I stole some of this stuff and I
left some of the stuff returning to the point of beginning as you would in a
deeded piece of property I don’t believe you would do if you were looking for the
treasure I just wanted to use the example of the monuments point of
commencement for the beginning and the fact that you would travel in a
particular direction for a particular distance so I don’t I don’t mean to
imply that you should return to the beginning that’s not in our solution you
know it’s up to you how you want to use it but that I don’t I didn’t mean to
imply that today all right Forrest Fenn made his own bronze markers you know
Susan Koeppen Bible I kind of like that I kind of like that that there are some
indications at the end at the point of each monument where you can find it and
the other thing I started thinking about after I read that Osborne Russell story
is maybe when he uses the word you know we have always talked about the blaze I
won’t talk about this more tomorrow but maybe he did mark a tree with the
expectation that tree would have a limited life and that if you found it
before that okay and if you didn’t you didn’t so you know I started again
stimulated thought about maybe the blaze really is ablaze in the classic
foresters definition let’s say Shane McLaughlin I thought the
lady asked him if there would be switch backing he said looping yeah the
conversation didn’t go exactly like that I do remember it but you’re gonna have
to go back to the mobi Dickens video and and take a look by the way
Shelley and I are planning our shows several weeks out and I think one of the
things that we’re gonna be doing soon is we’re going to go back to the collected
works video the early one the one in October of 2013 and the mobi Dickens
video and yes I know I recorded both of those videos and I was there and that
night before I left I made what James Comey would call contemporaneous notes
and so we’re gonna go back over those notes because there were things that
happened in both of those events that weren’t exactly caught by the video and
so we’re gonna review the important parts of collected collected works 2013
and moby-dick ins 2013 over the next couple of weeks we have next week’s show
plan but after that Sean Molloy give us homework come on miss Ford gave you
homework today Jimmy fast she said switching back then making a loop she’s
dangerous yeah that that’s what he called her yeah whatever when ever Finn
is intimidated by a female with a search solution she becomes dangerous mm-hmm
Colleen de-balled oh hi Toby and Shelley always enjoy your vlogs Thank You Jimmy
fast moby-dick ins video we just talked about that so um Shane McLaughlin now I
remember Forrest Fenn said if you follow the clues precisely that the clues will
lead you straight to the treasure direction is straight is the direction
straight no I don’t think so and the reason is
that when you’re boots on the ground there just isn’t anything straight there
you know as you head it may be straight as you go from quote monument unquote to
quote monument unquote so the put in below the Homa Brown to me
as a monument in our bait based on our what we presented today a monument so
there may be straight lines between monuments but I don’t think the entire
solution from warm water salts to you know bumping into the blaze I don’t
think that’s I don’t think it’s necessarily straight it just could be
the way he talks your affectation let’s see Susan Hagen
libel the only starting point for istván gives us his Santa Fe I think we need to
start in Santa Fe well you know what Santa Fe is a good place to start
because it’s such a nice town I was born there and then go into the mountains
David Charles Davi Oh hints and clues jf a treasure hunter hi guys just happened
to check out YouTube and saw you live I’m gonna be excited to go get the
treasure by the end of March but gonna be sad to bring it to an end us too
because then we have to worry about what we’re gonna do with our YouTube channel
we’re gonna make a drones channel we’re gonna turn our YouTube channel into a
drones channel because they seem to be very popular yeah
and that’s something you love anyway yeah alright Paul woods it’s good luck
on that me too good look on them hey by the way Shelly and I are gonna be headed
out at the end of the month as well so maybe we’ll bump into you as we’re
carrying the treasure chest I’m sneaking it out and sneaking it out oh it’s
nothing no we have nothing here it’s a drone baby Sean McLaughlin Det Shane
McLaughlin sorry does anybody else think hear me all and listen good also refers
to listening to force been talking in general and to read between the lines
I’m gonna let that I’m gonna let the folks answer I don’t I don’t have a
credible answer for John Robinette hello from South Point Ohio we’re
are you why am I missing all this stuff well we Dickens keep going I’m I’ll
catch up with you John who did you just say Oh South China on the miles okay I
got it okay okay Matt Matt says perhaps the place of origin is mountains north
of Santa Fe very likely well you know what that’s very possible maybe we do
have the point of commencement in the mountains North the Santa Fe Boise says
hi Edward Owen David Charles it is dead reckoning I mean it’s the equivalent of
dead reckoning now when a surveyor does this of course he has all the tools that
he needs and now of course those tools are are connected to the GPS satellite
system so it’s not quite as dead reckoning as it used to be without
Corrections on the map etc etc so one of our theories had to do with the fact
that some of the directions could be found in the thrill of the chase and
then when the benchmark came out a map came out they put the magnetic
declination zhan the map and so if you had the the degrees in the poem I mean
in the book and the declination is in the map you had some components
necessary for dead reckoning so possible forest also said you need the map man in
the barn then we were discussing that the book club is on Thursday absolutely
we’ll be talking about my Spanish toy factory on Thursday please join us and
let’s see Ryan he did say that I’m answering Ryan
loo okay AG K didn’t fen say that the hints are
not placed to deliberately or intentionally aid the seeker yes he did
say that or something similar to that but he but the I think the important
part of what he says is that there are hints in the book that help you with a
clues and I would limit my I would limit it to that so that all that other noise
you know doesn’t prevent you from doing something wise Lorrie James says I like
this Toby makes more sense than most logical like Finn it’s my training
mmm-hmm unfortunately I have no feelings as a result Shane McLaughlin says
Forrest Fenn’s spent 15 years on the poem why that long why did he say those
words may look simple but they aren’t not exact quote but close enough he
stressed that because he was writing he wasn’t isn’t his objective was not to
write a poem I mean anybody can sit down generally speaking and write a credible
poem we’ve all done it for I’m sure homework when we were in English class
so anybody can write a poem but he wasn’t writing a poem he was he was
drawing a map and so if you’ve drawn a map and you have to translate it into a
poem it’s going to take a lot of work especially when you want it to be as
accurate as he claims to have been when he wrote it so the the poem part is not
what took in 50 years it’s over 15 years rather it’s figuring out how to
translate the the directions that he had to find the treasure into a credible
poem that and I think the other thing too is when he wrote the poem he didn’t
want to embarrass himself he wanted to write a good poem that had the clues in
it so I think that’s that could take 15 years and according to Douglas Preston
in the foreword for Once Upon a while the poem got more difficult harder over
the years over the years is good yeah I’d like to see that first rendition and
see how easy it was no sorry we’re going quiet here is be Jeremy Branson says
great points today Thank You Denise Begley says hello hey Denise
and Adam body says I look great of course we all know that wait didn’t he
just say that up there before is it no I was a low know you read that okay I
thought I read again all right I’m telling you he’s sitting there with
candles in a glass of wine watch Richard Moore can you describe what you believe
the hiding place looks like Mitch etc also do you believe anyone other than
those Forrest Fenn brought there has been to the hiding place unless 200
years oh that’s a really good question so I believe that the hiding place the
the place he hid it is is in so I’m just gonna describe what I envision you know
how we I always talk about envisioning what your solution is so I’m gonna tell
you what I envision I’m going to I am vision a the equivalent of a naturally
made cave you know location not man-made it’s not a mind but it’s a naturally
made cave in the face of a rock and then it’s big enough not only to fit the
treasure chest and one of the neat things about it is its camouflaged by
nature and I don’t mean it’s covered by trees but it would be really really
difficult to see unless you were directly on top of it and I again I
don’t know how much time you’ve actually spent looking for this thing or in the
mountains for that matter but I know as I go hiking when I was hiking in in the
Colorado Rockies I would run into these places above the treeline that you as
you went by you didn’t see anything you didn’t notice anything but when you were
coming back down that trail you realized there was a little niche in there a
little cave in there and so it was camouflaged in wonder
but not camouflaged in the other so I always envision that it’s in camouflage
in some way that you could walk by it but if you walked back in the same
direction you might see it or you might have a feeling that there’s something
there so I also believe it’s big enough to
have placed his body into because that was his original plan now in terms of
other people being there I don’t think he knows whether or not someone had been
there in the past a lot of what I feel about the special place to me would have
some Native American influence so there might be petroglyphs nearby so it could
be it could have been previously used by by early Americans or the Spanish or you
know so it is possible that somebody had been there physically sorry hang that up
can you do that to Siri hold on maybe not hang this up and I agree that
it’s in some sort of an inch I think it might be a little bit low to the ground
it’s not at eye level it’s below the end that might be why he said kids might
have an advantage seeing it but not too low because that three-year-old girl’s
gonna need some help to get there so that’s about the extent of what I have
so so let me let me continue just a little bit more so I believe your niche
principle it is possible except that it’s big enough to hold his body because
his original intent was to throw his bones on the treasure his body on the
treasure in law’s bones to remain with it as far as people being there I think
it’s perfectly plausible that people had been there
I don’t know necessarily in the last 200 years to me his special place would have
been unique to him so maybe he feels like he discovered this place first I do
believe that he showed it either to to his two fathers either to Eric Sloane or
to his real father because I think that’s where the quote about don’t
we’re 79 or 80 year old man couldn’t go so I think it’s very possible that he
may have shared that with them and then we fall into the two people can keep a
secret where if one of them is dead so when they both passed away the secret of
this special place would have passed with them how’s that for a complete
answer all right Jan curb fan recently answered a new
question on mysterious writings I think March 11th hmm we’re sure that ones
didn’t we see that one already that he hadn’t shared any special information
with anybody wasn’t that that one I don’t remember I think there’s something
even more recent than that well today’s the 13th yeah today’s the 13th so that
was only two days ago no that other one about special information was like a
week ago okay I haven’t seen it I’m Nina JC did
forest really say he has a gut feeling it’ll be found this summer yes he said
it at the end of the Nightline video which you’ll fight you can find other
well said it at the six questions oh I’m sorry
the most recent six question is on Jenny Kyle’s mysterious mysterious writings
website we also have the video where we reviewed those q and a’s so if you go
back in our video list again playlist playlist you’ll see our analysis and we
analyzed that particular statement told you told you what we thought about it
mm-hmm and Virgil said just wanted to support you guys occasionally great
content Virgil that’s very kind thank you we owe
you a question at least sometime and maybe when you find yourself out in this
area we’ll buy you a cup of coffee house there be cross hey be nope by the way bill thank you very much for
your continued support of our channel via our PayPal dummy account that was so
Adam fat he wanted to know did for us to ever get back to you regarding the six
questions no not only that so I really feel like I’m being what do they call it
the ostracize not ostracized but there’s another journalist there goes the
monetization for this week if the YouTube hundred the YouTube channel will
pick up shit I said you could robot so yeah I never did was that Adam yes yeah
Adam I never did get a response and I recently wrote him another email
regarding next week’s show and didn’t get a response to that so I’ve come to
the conclusion that he’s not you know he’s even more more mad at me than ever
I don’t know cuz he’s not responding incommunicado yeah incommunicado
that’s why we’ll keep working on it we were we did do a video about what the
questions were that we asked in case you have missed that that’s in our playlist
as well 19:32 was a lead year starting Friday
cetera et cetera he’s somebody somebody asked what’s the
important of 1930 to Nazi an average person mmm go ahead read it a
GK from an average person first been stated that most of the areas existed
when he was a kid with regards to the palm locations any
thoughts on which ones didn’t exist when he was a kid yeah you’ve got to go back
in I and I and I’ve read that quote several times and it’s very tricky and I
think I think what do you have to break it down what he says is that the
locations existed when he was a kid but the clues didn’t and all he’s telling
it’s Forrest speak he’s telling you that the locations that he applied the clues
to did exist but the clues didn’t because he hasn’t written hadn’t written
them yet so go back and read that and and because you have to read it two or
three times because it’s fen speak and you you have to realize he’s not as
usual telling you anything if he’s not telling you anything anything that you
couldn’t have already concluded on your own and if he did use a tree as a marker
then the tree probably wasn’t there or it would have been a sapling it wouldn’t
have been as big it wouldn’t have been the same kind of large tree that it is
now yeah Jeffrey Carter says hello boys lunchtime
at school Oh school isn’t it spring break thank God for uh thank God for
smart phone it’s not Amy Smith AGK Shelly did you have any thoughts on cold
case that was the question she asked you why well I thought about it a little bit
and I thought you know will a cold case relating to police work is something
that people have really given up on so I believe cold case might refer to
something that somebody’s given up on finding the answer to that’s as much as
I have hmm going down to mr. G right below that Jim did you pass did I pass
in the barn what do you see man any boy I think you
went too far down no I haven’t gotten there yet okay all right I’m gonna leave
it up to you because it’s okay Canada’s armed what are the odds the monument
looks kinda like an olive jar Oh interesting um I think I so I’m gonna
use the word monuments cautiously because the implication of using that
word is that they are somehow man-made and and men person placed objects and I
don’t believe necessarily that’s true I think when I use monuments in the
context of the the poem I’m using a euphemism for the word Waypoint
it’s a physical place but I don’t think it’s necessarily you I don’t think
necessarily that you’ll find a man-made object there you’ll just find the
equivalent of a monument a waypoint there so you know that you can change
direction and head for a new distance okay that was this one so
we’re here the other thing I should mention the other thing about using this
particular strategy that I described today is that it took me further down
the poem than the place it it works it applies as you go further down the poem
from beginning we’re wrong water salt colleen divaldo has anyone ever
considered that fen left the chest in his backpacks so it may be camouflaged um one would have to assume that he wore
a backpack and remembered that he made two trips and I had read someplace or
had heard someplace that the first trip he made contained that he was carrying
the treasure and that the second which would to me just be the opposite of the
way that you do it and that the second trip contained the chest so when he
walked out of there the tread the things that he was carrying the backpack the
treasure and the chest were now in situ they were in the place that he wanted to
leave them so he had an empty backpack I don’t believe that he would have left
them in the backpack I described once what someone would find when they
arrived at that point and the pleasure of opening up the top of the chest and
having the glow of all these jewels and gold reflected back at you so I don’t I
don’t necessarily think that he would have done that I think having hidden it
is probably enough to to keep it from being viewed until you’re you know he
once said someone once asked him what a metal detector helped and and his answer
was the equivalent of yeah if you’re right there on top of the chest so I
don’t necessarily think that it’s in a backpack I think it’s out in the open
and open in the context of whatever niche he hid it in not open in the sense
it’s out in the middle of the field someplace and Amy Smith says what was
reading between the lines referring to I don’t know who said that
did I say that I don’t know I don’t Amy I don’t know where that comes from
you’ll have to give me a citation of some kind I don’t know mr. G do you think the place Finn parked
his car has only one Road in one Road out do you think the last road was a
dirt road one Road in one Road out that’s interesting so the the
implication of the question that you’re asking is that one of the roads that he
was on as a is effectively a dead end having been in these areas in the modern
day today there are very few roads very few roads that you could get on that
would be a dead end where if you worried if you chose to you could you know you
could have put in below the home a brown and then done your business with hiding
the treasure as you’ve walked back and forth to the hiding spot and then you
could have continued your drive the dead end the dead end
theory that you proposed is interesting in the sense that the implication is
that the home of brown I’m sorry I put in the put in below the home of brown is
this is it’s not only a monument you know a waypoint but a stopping point I
don’t think so and and here’s why I think the stopping point was the hiding
place I think as you draw out the waypoints you’re not concerned about the
whether or not you can expand from the waypoints in either direction until you
get to the hiding spot I think the dead end is the hiding spot
so no I don’t think so Jake thanks for this show do you think the poem should
be read from a late 1800s Early 1900s standpoint people don’t use the words
tarry halt scant that often in this day and age I don’t I’m not sure that it would make
a difference because the definitions I mean the the definitions of those words
in there so their utilization is what I would refer to as archaic you’re right
they haven’t been in the language in common usage for a long time but the
definitions haven’t changed and I think if you go back there are too many words
that are in the poem that are in common contemporary usage there are a few words
that are in the poem that are not in common contemporary usage so I might
focus on those words in terms of how how I incorporated them into my solution but
the definitions haven’t changed so I don’t think I don’t think it’s necessary
to read it in the context of that period he wrote it we know that he wrote it
between you know 1988 and 2003 he says it took him 15 years and and he’s a
contemporary writer he doesn’t if you look at any of his writings he doesn’t
there are writers who write like they’re living in 1850 and if you want to see
what somebody who lived in 1850 just read you know Huckleberry Finn that’s
how they wrote in 1850 he doesn’t he writes very in a very contemporary way
and I think that’s why he appreciates sunny airs a web blog because Sonya
writes in a very contemporary very heartfelt but very contemporary tobey’s this is from Virgil Kane Toby’s
cave also happens to be a rattlesnake den this is what I Finn and we recommend
that you carry a flashlight wherever you go and make sure you check things out
before you go stick in your hand in it in a sandwich so you can throw it the
snakes yeah yeah there are snakes especially in the lower parts of the
Rocky Mountains so beware be wary carry a flashlight or your snake skins yeah
any any time you’re in wild you’re not you’re going to run into
animals that are not safe to be around for the most part they’re as they’re
more afraid of you than you are of them but the there is the occasional accident
where you bump into one of them and it surprises and there’s nothing more wild
animal dislikes than being surprised and and that’s how rattlesnakes are but
rattlesnakes will let you know they’re coming and that your will let you know
they’re there and you should be wearing snake skins and you’re right you
shouldn’t be Shelly’s right you shouldn’t be poking your hands and
spaces that you haven’t first checked out with a flashlight because even if
it’s not a rattlesnake den there may be a snake in there for spiders or any
other creepy crawly yeah or make Toby do it could you come and put your hand in
this one yeah yeah wear gloves yeah I think that’s another thing that
he mentioned that that’s a good idea for said wear gloves well is safety and a
like his safety conversation do you so hello to John bobbin
hey John puppet how are you doing Matt wants to know why do you believe forest
is mad at you yes I don’t know necessarily that he’s mad at me I just I
what I do know is that he doesn’t communicate with me unless it’s unless
it’s a point at which I have offended either him or one of his friends so he
did when you asked him about that John frame fry thing to me
if oh he did he had not yeah but but Cape Ravana if he’d talked to a couple
of other people as well or tried to reach out
so he got emails from a couple of others as well um so I I don’t I you know I
shouldn’t say that that’s probably wrong for him it’s I don’t think he’s mad I
don’t know that he’s mad at me I know that he’s not communicating with
me and so my searcher brain says oh he’s not communicating with you because
you’ve come with a solution that you the treasure so
that’s right yeah guess we’re the ones because we’re the big threat we don’t we
don’t know why we don’t think it’s mad because we’ve run into him you know we
were at collected works and he shook my hand said hello he was very warm he
hugged Shelley and I’ve got a picture to prove it
so I and you know I don’t know necessarily I say that and I probably
should Clifford langa neck agrees with us that
we’re getting close to the treasure I just won’t talk to us just you know
someone who feels good doesn’t want to be seen as that’s providing clues
cavorting with the enemy what reason boarding with the enemy is John Gould
why would friend want to risk having the whole world know about his special place
if the finder would reveal the location uh I don’t think he worries about it I
think he has said on more than one occasion what the finder does with the
treasure what the finder does after the treasure what the finder does period
after finding the treasure is up to the finder he didn’t he says he doesn’t care
one way or the other so at that point the fact that a finder
has found the treasure constitutes a violation of the special place anyway so
what difference does it make so maybe we can once the finder announces it and
tells the word confounder we could go make a phen monument there but many but I think his position on the
manor has always been that’s up to the finder the finder wants to you know let
people know where he found it he or she found it or let people know that it was
or was not found or he’s always said that’s up to the finder it’s his it’s
their PC and he says it’s there’s no so sure what this means but Timothy alkar
says why is it forstman says he would rather be rotting in the Sun than a
hospital bed with people talking you know what that’s an old guy who’s I know
because I’m the same way I’m when when my mother passed away I was up in the
mountains I happen to be I was searching for treasure up in the mountains and my
and up there my cell phone service I didn’t get cell phone service until
española there’s this big tower in Espanola and you can tell when you’re
within five miles of Espanola because all your voicemails and text messages
and my sister had let me know was calling me and texting me to let me know
that my mother passed away and then I needed to get down down to Santa Fe as
quickly as I could and I did and they she had passed away at the hospital the
st. Vincent’s Hospital on st. Michael’s Drive and so I went there and ran into
my sister and you know she was angry at me for not being made available I tried
to explain what it was there was no indication that my mother was going to
pass away that weekend and she said well we we asked the doctor to hold her for
you so you could visit her for lack of a better way to describe it
so my sister showed me to a room where my mother’s body was and I walked in and
I was there for 10 seconds and I walked back out and my sister said what
happened or this and and my response was that’s that’s not my mother you know I
have a Sheltie will tell you I have a very pragmatic view of death and what
what was in that room was not my mother and it wasn’t anything that even
resembled my mother as far as I was concerned there was no life in it and so
as you get older one of the that you want that out of your death
since you’ve had as fan has an interesting life is a death that’s your
way that you get to have it your way we don’t often get that and now and we
don’t envision that we’re gonna be you know some people some people will tell
you when I die I want to be in my bed not a hospital bed surrounded by my
family and friends that would be I suppose perfect although I’m not sure
what what was fans choice was to die out in the wilderness and I think now based
on some of the comments that he’s made recently he knows that’s not going to be
possible and oh by the way his family don’t want him to go out into the woods
and die for his in Treasuries or something they want to have them close
by so that they can you know be near the man that they love so but I think that’s
one of the things that that we all guys say you know I mean I want to die on the
Pecos River just below torero on a little stretch of the river there that’s
the best fishing spot I’ve ever had or there was a time where you know I’m not
gonna go through all the ways that I wanted to die but I know some ways you
didn’t want to go because you refused to how many times the reason it’s up to
seven I six or so anything anyway we have a cat so anyway I I think that’s
just kind of the thinking that goes along with getting old as you start
considering your death you know it’s happened to me I’m 69 now I mean I’m on
the lower side of this thing and I’m gonna die and I don’t know if it’s gonna
be soon or not but it’s something you think about I want to die with you know
I used to have enemies I want to die so there so they have video so this is
pneumatic this pneumatic air you can actually control with your hands and one
of the things if you want to shoot yourself if you arm the drone right and
then you go shoot me one of the things that you can do is tell the drone that
you want to make a video and the way that you do that is you tell you look at
the drone and you do this and it starts shooting video one of the other thing
so that you can do is you can take a snapshot and in order to get the drum to
take a snapshot you do this so from now on all my photos are going
to be so I want to die to a hippie now he’s going like this and Ellie’s photo I
want to be I want to die by being struck on the back of a head by one of my drums
with it with the camera rolling while I’m looking for where I lost my girl no
it would be bit what would be better is you’re flying the drone right yeah and
you’re in you’re in this shooting towards you and then all of a sudden a
bear comes and attacks you kills you dad and the drone catches all of the footage
and then we put it online and we make a million dollars we well you’re survivors
I want to be flying a drone well eaten by a bear searching for Fenn’s treasure
yeah that would be ideal that’d be fun so Jon Bobby except except Jon Bob it’s
cousin more of it now Bob Ross was in the Air Force and he died in 1995 of
lymphoma this was about five years before forest hit it could Bob Ross have
painted a landscape of where the location of the treasure is okay john
bobbitt I’m you that falls into the anything is possible category yeah I
don’t have his fun don’t have any okay Mary Green says forced to the golden
first because the car could be stolen or damaged hmm okay good did you is that
your conclusion or did you hear that someplace Mary man of course Eric
Schmidt wants to know from john bobbitt why would four share that location with
bob ross of all people bob ross because who doesn’t love Bob Ross who doesn’t
love Bob Ross so you’ve got the Q&A right I’m gonna go to the heat
controller while you’re doing that Danny Agee hey Toby when Finn says
people have been within 200 feet from the treasure what if it’s not 200 feet
in linear but in elevation clue number one is 200 feet higher than clue number
two for example a mountain or lake we think that’s we think it’s possible was
it Danny yes Danny Danny we think that the 200
feet when you’re dealing with someone like fan can be measured in a variety of
ways and so it is possible that when he said they were within 200 feet they
could have been you know at the lower part of a mountainside and the treasure
was above them rather than a a flat or a perpendicular distance so yes SeaMonkey
vacation says the treasure is under a happy little tree so when marygreen so when does this so
when do the snakes leave the den when it’s warm out right yeah well it depends
they’re they’re like everybody else that hibernates it depends on the temperature
and and things like weather and etc etc they they come out during during the
sunlight to pick up heat because they’re cold-blooded creatures so they lay in
the Sun and then go back to the den in the evening because they’ve collected
all that heat Jason helgerson says hi Scott pieces hey
hey guys can I fill in with something I don’t have anything to fill in with
actually oh we’re wondering where mr. Gorman is oh where is Bill let’s see Jake says do you think idioms
may be helpful in solving some of the clues water ty come hell or high water
comes to mind you know Jake I’ve always wondered how you translate he keeps
telling us that everything you need to know is in the poem so and we and we
know for certain that the poem isn’t precise in the sense that the the words
that are written in the poem don’t tell us anything so that they so it’s
necessary for us don’t well I shouldn’t say they don’t tell us anything they
tell us where to start so so our responsibility to all of this is to be
able to translate the words in the poem into something that that can be
understood in the context of a map in a set of directions the the question that
I don’t have an answer to is or is it a cipher or the idioms are they anagrams
so there’s all these possibilities to that that could be interpreted as tools
for translation idioms is one of them but I think you’re onto something in the
sense that once you decide what the tool for translation is I think that tool is
consistent from the beginning of the poem to the end I think if you decide
it’s idioms and it could very well be I don’t know because because I still
haven’t translated the poem myself but I think if you decide it’s idioms then
your job is easier because I think it’s idioms throughout the poem if you
decided ciphers then it’s ciphers throughout the poem if you decide it’s
anagrams its anagrams throughout the poem so it could be idioms but I
know that it could be idioms anymore that can be any of the others or a
synecdoche I just that drives me crazy when you say why in a good way Synecdoche synecdoche Edward Owens says
how important to you and of course sports Ben is a waterfall in the stall
and search well up until I read that little Osborn Russell Diddy where he
started with a full waterfall it wasn’t a big thing there there are as as we
discussed last week there’s all these references to water waterfalls make
great monuments right great marker points so considering the number of
times water and that vertical direction are mentioned in the poem both up up and
down and variations thereof it is very possible that there is a waterfall in in
the in the description in the you know the property lines that we were talking
about earlier I think it’s very possible and it would be very elegant because you
know he mentions it in the in the book and generally speaking waterfalls are
they’re attractive they’re good they’re for the most part they’re good looking
objects and so it would fit kind of into the grand scheme of things so I’m
starting to think that maybe a waterfall is part of all this I still can’t tell
you where it is I just it’s starting to become you know it’s starting to its
what’s what’s the word I’m looking for it’s starting to be not obvious of a
pattern yeah the patterns indicate that there marry very well be a waterfall
someplace in the poem did we think virtual for this superjet contribution
thank you Virgil okay is that it hand me that iPad can
you hand me that I bet they’re so and the reason is I’ve got this one in the
control room just so I can watch it I can help you with this Q&A I think I’m
at the bottom yeah I am okay okay john bobbitt says when somebody finds the
treasure can they have a showing on AGK well of course yes absolutely we’ve
always said that if you find the treasure and you want to announce it on
a Gypsys kiss send us a quick email we will get back we will get back in touch
with you via cellphone well probably have a long talk with you about are you
sure you don’t want to remain anonymous because we don’t want to do report on
something and then have something bad happen to the person because we write
the news so you know we recommend anonymity but if you want to share the
treasure with the world we’re happy to do that with you mr. G a G K a little
off-topic but Toby have you ever prospected for gold in New Mexico or at
all for that matter I have panned and drip not dredged but
sluiced for gold in New Mexico and found some on both the Pecos and the Red River
and I have dredged with a friend in Colorado so I I’ve done a little bit of
both of those things I have a friend whose husband’s family has a stake not
too far from the east side of the Sandia’s I believe a gold mistake clean
claim a gold claim yeah yeah yeah the the problem with most of the mining here
in in this area where we’re at around Albuquerque is it’s dry mining there’s
not enough water to do to do water based mining so you have to do that dry mining
and it’s just not very pretty mm-hmm nothing not the mining has to be pretty
but if you’re gonna go at least have water nearby you
okay palma cracklin that’s a new word new word new name sorry could hey good
home off brown be Native Americans instead of bears fish or a person anything is possible
anything is possible I don’t I don’t think so but anything is possible that
wouldn’t be ours yeah what’s your take on specialized
knowledge so you know forest is said more than once you don’t require our
specialized knowledge the the simple fact of the matter is that when the
person that’s making that statement is a former Air Force pilot who taught
himself geography some geology Neolithic
paleontology geology archaeology anthropology writing etc etc so it
strikes me as a bit bold to say that he gave us something that doesn’t require
if not the ownership of specialized knowledge the acquisition of specialized
knowledge I don’t see how you could find this treasure without learning things as
part of the adventure and it strikes me that because of the way he made himself
you know Forrest Fenn the self-made man a fighter pilot self-made man he did
that as a result of what to me implies a life full of continuous learning and so
part of my my adventure through life has you know we’re streaming to you today on
the computer that’s running OBS open broadcasting software a month ago I’d
no OBS existed and we had a completely different model for presenting to you
but I went and learned it I acquired this specialized knowledge necessary to
do this to achieve this goal it strikes me that Forrest Fenn a man who spent his
life acquiring specialized groups of specialized knowledge when he says I it
doesn’t require specialized knowledge I don’t think he means that it doesn’t
require the acquisition of specialized knowledge and I think that’s the
distinction I don’t see how you could do it otherwise nor do I see how he
couldn’t expect you to increase the volume of adventure so if all this was
about what’s going out in the woods that’s one thing if if this is about
going out in the woods with a with a brand spankin new set of new knowledge
in order to do this I mean that’s what I expect from him that’s what I expect for
him to do for him to do to us and it has been an improvement on the adventure
prior to Forrest Fenn now I didn’t I didn’t know I grew up in Santa Fe San
lázaro is 20 miles south of Santa Fe of that I didn’t know it existed I thought
the pebbles were the pebbles and that’s all there there was so I’ve learned a
great deal in the past four or five six years three five five years that I
didn’t have before I didn’t know about survey tools I had no idea did add this
is how survey worked I just I read plots of property that I had purchased and I
assumed that the attorney who was conducting the transfer of the property
knew what it was all needed to be about so I think specialized knowledge as
acquired is required I don’t think you have to know anything when you start the
poem but I think if you get through this with it without acquiring specialized
knowledge you’re a better person than me and that’s not him he spent a lifetime
learning acquiring specialized knowledge I’m getting redundant you are thank you
he also said an average person just needs the book in the poem
so average what is average Jen curb says is a satellite phone worth getting when
searching boots on the ground good question
I when I first went out the first couple of years that I searched I took one
because I was going out alone and I wanted to make sure that I was safe I
don’t think so I think it’s a big expense and I think you could do the
same with an e perb it’s a lot less expensive and you have the ability to
set off a marker point if you wanted to be really safe if I was going if I was
going alone then I would probably take an e / but I think a satellite phone is
a bit extreme – it’s very expensive they’re not they’re not inexpensive
they’re both physically expensive and the services are expensive so I don’t
think you need it you might be able I think you can lease them now
so Check Into leasing a satellite phone you’re gonna you will be in areas where
you won’t get cell phone service so if you’re dependent upon that connection to
the world then you could but I don’t I don’t see the need Joshua white gun do
you know the route force took from Santa Fe to Yellowstone every year with his
family oh no I don’t but he didn’t travel from oh it’s oh that’s
interesting once he lived in Santa Fe oh there yeah
so once he lived in Santa Fe with his current family he didn’t go to
Yellowstone every year he went to Yellowstone every year with his the
family is his birthday his father’s family and they went from Temple Texas
he wasn’t born and raised in Santa Fe he was born in Temple Texas born and raised
in Temple Texas and that’s where they went to Yellowstone from I imagine by
the time he got to Santa Fe they could afford other routes than driving right
hey hey play is on plane yeah they could fly you could fly you could fly
commercial etc etc so I don’t I don’t think there’s a driving route that he
took necessarily from Santa Fe to Yellowstone
I don’t know that he visited very often once he was an adult living in Santa Fe
he was pretty happy in Santa Fe we still think Yellowstone well this was his
father special place not in this era so I mean he he did have some grand times
there but as you grow up what you want is the places that are special to you
and your family and he raised his family in New Mexico mm-hmm so I’m sure they
have places in New Mexico that are special to them I agree
well thank you you’re welcome let’s be partners okay I think we’re done yeah we
better be done it’s coming up on three o’clock here that’s a couple hours of
chit chat and we got more shows this week so we don’t want to wear you out
exactly we don’t want to wear us out so do we have anything that we need to say
afterwards we’ve already done so yeah just remind him tomorrow at one o’clock
Toby will be live to answer your questions about being liable if you find
the treasure and Shelby’s gonna be joining us remotely so she’ll handle
production responsibilities for that show tomorrow and then we’ll see you
again tomorrow evening with Cynthia Meacham which should be a lot of fun
we’re looking forward to that by the way if you guys have any recommendations for
people that you would like to see on our show we’ve already had one people keep
recommending bill Gorman and you’re welcome to recommend for his fan but he
doesn’t come back so I sent an email to gypsies kiss at
gmail.com and tell us about anyone you think you would like to see on our
Wednesday night panel discussion because we’re gonna keep doing more of those I
think I like I like the I like the model that we’re using yeah let me get to hear
from other people it’s nice yeah change it up and then of course Thursday is
book club and we’ll be talking about chapter six and drinking my Spanish toy
factory we’re gonna have some love block sad walk from New Zealand New Zealand
wine country that’s right lovely stuff and of course
our usual just the facts on Friday and back again next week so thanks for
watching today thanks for all your comments and questions for participating
in super chat and if you didn’t get to super chat with us today make sure you
check out our PayPal account right yeah certainly PayPal dummy slash a Gypsys
kiss so and do we have any closing screens are we done no we’re done we’re
gonna leave it on me oh and thumbs up on that thumbs up for our show we really
appreciate it and YouTube likes it when he gives us so thumbs up yeah don’t and
if you’re watching this on replay and you want to see the accompanying chat
where do you look for it you’re gonna be if you’re on a desktop or a laptop it’ll
be on the right side of the screen now it’s not going to be there immediately
it YouTube takes X number of hours depending on the length it’s gonna take
them 2 or 3 hours to process this show once it’s processed supposedly they’ve
already done it on one of our videos the video chat or the live chat replay will
show up on the right side if you’re on a desktop or a laptop and below you’ll
have to drag it up from the bottom if you’re on a mobile device so but it’s
there I mean it’s migrated down to us so thanks so much for showing up today and
spending time with us and for all your great comments and questions and for a
Gypsys kiss the blog I’m Shelly Carney and I’m Toby units thanks for joining us
today we’ll see you tomorrow you

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