The Hatred of Literature



it's my tremendous pleasure to welcome here today William months comparative literature at the University of London on time and who is the author of large number of books one of which is the first now to be published in English translation it's called the history that it's not called in history it's called the hatred of literature the antigen and it has just been translated to English by Nicholas Elliot who is here among us and so I look like I would argue that this is just the first of a number of works by David marks that well have been translated into English and so just to give you an idea the damage of Eliot if I they need two thousand two members divinities Wisconsin and so we'd also edited a number of volumes but I'll just say that you know I like damage at least twelve years because only says duties retail events him snack the published by community and 2005 featured things like also published by Dimitri into and that book was the winner of the cleaning tool of the amenity from sellers in 2010 and that is just an amazing thing because the previous human was what floette and his parts moment is constantly existing should be given to him it's a prize for the promotion of virtue temperature now how many pens like that roughly of being guided to card for Bella Coola agent instead we awarded the complete until for having promoted virtue literature and the same at the end of the 18th century and it was the only private enterprise in the 19th century and so I actually test changer in the 19th century it was the object of debates between between writers but their society so good writers habit and then the 20 century really began to just now it's just name of it that's one the same time so but I think the reason the fluid obsessively mentioned because virtually any positive emotional prize if I hadn't won but the fact is that in the 20th century became the religious prize and so it was given to Christian groups and Gabi she's mad really not suggesting at all and then at the end 1990s I'm sorry I didn't one still history and last can it be when the enemy horses started to give the prize to the fields of use and books to have some kind of ethical relationship with life and so as in this respect that I had that with me which is something about the ethics of the little a of the skull so it's for this reason that well so I just I I mean I was paired with the reason that what what prompted me make a big deal out of this was the thing the three epigraph from throw better literature I just thought it's just I mean you did what so that always wanted to do but never quite managed you really does talk about this prize a lot it's very envious and then in 2012 the Tuamotu deep wound Tajikistan tragic which I believe is process of being translated as well and will come out with and so we in 2015 and the so now with Harvard University Press and I believe that so this book just came out in January and has already been the object of a great deal of positive notice and the press a number of of extremely positive reviews and has also been been a book of the week by the times of higher education software England and the Chronicle of Higher Education here and so and coincidentally they're purchased after and so this is not so translated by Nicholas Elliot present and and then so 2018 also having come out very recently wide Western the senior at the same moment of a Stalag a which has not yet been translated it seems to mean that this book is rated in English well I think there are at least two reasons what happened one reason is quite superficial the other one is deep this is gibberish only reason has something to do with recent French political industry and if you know about transfer that when when Nicolas Sarkozy was a very French president he launched the chemical attack against process declared which is a player which is one of the most famous novels friend 17th century written by a time and then and Nicolas Sarkozy reiterated many times those attacks against la casa de clay and yeah okay so yes like that was and made and and there was strong reaction from from the people from intellectuals from students from teachers there were public readings of the passage declare in the streets and it was few that was made from the movie night of the way and finally because it was famous to such thing she was published in the with the volume of our service rates also means no facility was was in the connection of anomalous a beautiful collection of models of the citizens century now she has so it was a great response here and and then somehow it is it explains the beach why he was defeated in 2012 because he was completely separated from the individual class and I think many French people resented this kind of disdain class ability had four high culture and literature literature that which is so traditional but now the Nicolas Sarkozy has changed my of hizmet is the most learned political this nothing has really with everything everything every book and took a lot about has an advice about any novel Neuromancer engines so that's so that's superficial reason why I would that was that I thought that there was something interesting here to make a history of that kind of disdain criticism against literature has itself because somehow the the attack against a second was interrogation about the position of leadership in with save France in French Pretoria general culture is it necessary to know something about literature just to become serious and so so that was a very interesting debate about evolved about this about the place which are in individual personal information fresh so it was interesting to make a history of that whole gang of the criticism from I mean not only in the world advances from antiquity to till today but the different reason I wrote that book is something that is more has to do with my own reflection about about attention I was always interested in the discourse about literature criticism naturalism and evolution of the idea of literature from the beginnings of it must date was beginning suppose but since ancient times and I was because I have been always convinced that literature is can be mobile objects and as always evolving always transforming and those discourses about literature tell us something about how it was considered at the time those discourses were produced and they so literalism in itself is a very interesting matter to study analysis what I always did in my research and then the the discourses against Russia are a kind of real journalism little pieces and maybe not there that must each fatigue absolutely cheek of literature and it was interesting to study those discourses as Testaments the bounce the bounce literature so I really wanted to make study of those discourses against those attacks against literature since the beginning since the first Testament until today because I found that there are a lot of them so and nobody has ever talked about that Sparky yeah there are a lot of books about books and the public history on books about books and social but there was my knowledge nothing about those attacks is what account attacks against literature and so I thought that something was missing and I have that so those attacks against each other are the real object of this book I called it the Richard Armitage and but actually it's not exactly the hatred initiative is an expression used by mr. prepare himself to qualify the kind of resentment of any kind of passion he encountered in the French society the French royal society of his time and the way we both well did not the role of the church and the world of rioters in the society and insula tells how beautiful they used to seat it's so far and to say that Endre Tatiana energy or hatred or leadership as a kind of a mantra history is that somebody who has committed the premium education that's actually so I when I when the book was published in France 2000 GT they also additional before from the same time whose aim was to finish the position of ancient literature the study of ancient languages Latin and week and also some study of literature in high school in high schools and so I was really outraged by the kind of form and I thought maybe the first title I had which was Monte and time literature which is really intelligent is really quite what I didn't most attacks against it but the hatred of leadership was something that was more affinity and I really thought it was titled potentially the instances of real hatred hatred against nature and hatred me wanting the death of your Amy the real example of that in the examples of that are quite scarce and I and so I of course I tell the story of those we know hatred but they are very rare and they are most often pathological or parody or even for throwback I'm not sure he really experienced agents of Israel himself well as a writer that he fought for him was very interesting strategy to say that there was a hatred of literature in the society individual society so he could position which Asha has a kind of an autonomous power against society separated from society so I think that in Flores mind the the idea age division maybe represents that strategy but but objectively there was no real it was it was misunderstanding there were conceptions of the treasure when you when you get the trial right I think popular Kannada was met with the one who knows is this triangle against Maidana bhagavad-gita is not hatred literature he has another conception of a child within wrong with moral values and but it was not really ichika seen from the best but it could be seen maybe as hatred it was not really AJ to just people who and different worlds coming together but for America for that was very interesting to to speak of agent because it could give that separate society from literature literature from society and then position so actually for worse and even the hatred of literature would be indifference may the gods prevent Iran from ever writing well I hated when in this country being as I can while reading this thinking of Frederick routes Frederick C Cruz who was a stirring out of the 60s as a psychologically inclined theorist of literature theater critic of literature and recently and I guess since his retirement trying to teach others to talk somewhere in California since his retirement at some point he became a vigorous announcer of psychoanalysis at a frightened since his retirement he's published by the how many books denouncing Freud and at some point when I was at the University of Virginia he came to speak and I was asked for reasons I don't quite understood that was asked to respond to him and my response was that who knew that psychoanalysis could excite such passion in anyone but Frederick Cruz is there too didn't you know the guy gets up in the morning engine starts announcing Freud over breakfast and then continues announcing all day long until he finally goes to them together again next day it seems and so it seems to me that the existence of Frederick crews and publishers willing to publish these books are the most vigorous example of the persistence of importance of psychoanalysis and Freud in our culture and I mean in a way I love that with this because literature doesn't really I think get too much hatred in this country now a pointy-headed elite such as ourselves yes yes people who think that they can better and so that literature per se because literature per city enjoys a complete lack of importance I believe in this country for instance it's remarkable – but on this prison when I was a student in Paris in the early eighties I I was astonished to discover that on TV every Friday there was a post and since I only ever saw TV every Friday evening because it's relative I thought that every evening on French TV and which is not quite the case but even still today there is still talk shows that are I mean Christine won't go for instance and she's not the only one it seems to me that literature literature can has a measure to enjoy a certain amount of hatred in I mean no American president is that were going to denounce I think is a bit of gender I mean that would take the ethical sub was targeted for its but but I mean I can imagine what the monastic plan would be but no one can ever talk about their denouncing it in this country because first of all no one's ever gone to require that civil service free day for one thing and and for another I just I do think that these are my responses to this I'm wondering what you what you think about the the respective place of literature States because it seems to me to be very different than France a lot of question just to answer first missile attacks against Nicholas F is equal to have lunch those attacks against but it was against lattices play from men and to women type in the title and honestly haha and it was also to political so it was considered less less justness data is useful many fathers in service it was written by by about and also because it was the work of austerity so as far as interested right slack masses such a decision engine apart and rest busy was no the French Republic and he must try to have your pockets talking so then they were also able to call I think behind behind it has those attacks are better than nothing than indifference are really filled with that actually I as I told you I I had the idea that book during you could ask Sarkozy presidency but I wrote it during also a lot and Nicola seven students worst time of ages so long was the time of a difference so when I went at the end of the book I proved that sentence and may the gods prevents the type of indifference to come actually that that time had already come and it was the time this entire culture yes publicly very publicly when technology never ready yeah she was she was very sincere about about this and you don't ask means through our culture to be sincere about what is indifference to literature so I think her defense she was a woman and so it was a bit of a mistake that's it but there was no real attacks against that during competency and then and then in the end we went French policies before situation states because we had during those elections in 2017 have must literally debates we had political history so because you know that Christine there was possibly on was supposed to be the next president God means because of reduced her wife his wife hadn't had written or not written in the moon so it was with moon was implicated in the scum of the seven columns in which oxygen always advocated energy one of the leaves was reading about one of my books so I was excreted by Ekadashi in that stories I was part of the of one of the reason why should be little bit later it's quite sufficient 2010 so we must be so so things what does some message of hope for after track actually you think we can find someone it's always this book is has some new pages especially for the American edition and because the editor is depressed wanted some pages about the American situation of antique shots courses against integer and what are critical to find it to find such attacks against data in America because because there is more there is more in difference than Egypt and so I did not find the real testimonies of Egypt against the literature itself so the flood began specific books are for something different but my project is the attacks against in general in condemnation general Indonesian or literature as as literature and that combination of specific also I mean can we agree that I have what my Freud examples aiming towards can be agreed that the order to have vigorous Annunciations of something that thing has to be so in fact this is just annoying to the extreme importance of Europe in France yes exactly that's exactly the the case then the real hatred against enemy that has some power or enemy one things has some power so maybe the problem is not real but making the progress just in reflection of imagination but you can detain somebody you despise you hatred and the attacks are always against subterranean verbs but you do make so that's why I say that pages sample is better than indifferent and hatred you can't find some test anticipate read in the fresh literary historians so that and also to do because in France live live the tradition was constructed in the social imagination and in the direct relationship as kind of a Canon assumes in the 19th century especially such writers like Manami and so leadership in some way replaced with us we can do religion and this kind of discourse that placed digital people of intellectual activity and cultural activity happening in France happen also in front way England with Catholicism by Matthew allowed who wanted to push a standard and the new Bible told to you today to the students and in America America did not say the Bible but you see that and so I I had to to find my way to a path those pages because I did not find my own attacks but what I found was it was a different conception of literature as from the conception we have me for us to be more specific because this that great and famous speech by yes you see that for Emerson nutrition can be Canada must be as truthful as the Bible for for the for the cities and literature can be the cannibal as you say in the new Bible but not replaced but that parallel to the parallel to the to the Bible and I thought that maybe it was in this way of the waiting many I thought about those trigger warnings against oh maybe not real trigger one is that the fact that student here was shot by the story of rapes in parts of its attack offices and it was a few years ago and they must debate Colombia general and they are also the Wall Street Journal answer because could put I mean obviously our offices be read by students rest of the semester no lady rated started the community was contracted so so and III found other example like the fact that some books by I mean thomson era was explicated from the n-word in and so it was the egg model was replaced by the sling which is kinda strange because what so so so hatred no that's not to say that it's not it's not even attacking each other but I I removed about this just because I I thought that it was true for the northern section where the people do that it's my opinion on the way I see as a French tea but the way that people some people seizure as something that should be as more as religious even in the 19th century and expurgated and change the words of it and it's not a sacred text just literature has a vehicle for ideas that's it's also the way that leadership must be adapted to society and that's not something that is very very the affinity between communities societies and communities and military works and so that's why you're celebrate all sorts of offensive things but what you do is you have footnotes and you can change the word yeah and that's maybe that's the difference between I would say it's a bit risky to say have to put an intellectual game between Protestant countries at Catholic Bibles they are full of notes but the Evangel Oh typical there must be a direct access from the reader to the to the sacred text so the translation itself is adapted to make it accessible to the readers so that's so maybe it has something to do maybe with different religious traditions but but well my special issue as every guy I found no real it's just made forward I said one thing that I found so interesting and one of many interesting things that I learned from reading this is about the I had no idea that CP snows two cultures must required reading at Columbia University inclusive so that I mean I knew about CDs now his new cultures but I learned so much from me here but about response the phrase the two cultures is in essence has become intellectual schools because the literary culture one hand and scientific culture it comes the order comes from city school speech language in 1959 which was a tremendous success worldwide except entrants that that when you look carefully at John Shaw who was a candidate for presidency a quote protein eat and and it became request really in all honesty that gap first and for all students at its assets and the success of its text is was really remarkable but when you look closely at the text it's found quite hard to believe that it was so admired and respected because it's it is actually very badly with other methods also the deities are most ideas are quite bad and actually it's less complaints about the division of Twitter than pretty an attack against Italy – official from the contingent of scientific culture and with the strong strong of a little bit culture because us I am it's a beach yeah I guess it's it's the term of scientific culture is for example rights babies now or I can town city so in this lecture is for example steadily heterosexual and the word is in italics or those your attacker took his italics it's he said the difference in social matters between our relatives that or as far as that goes between Los Alamos and Greenwich Village would make an anthropologist blank along about the host name the culture there's no house rising to outsiders of the feline and oblique and sometimes it seems that scientists rather speaking the truth especially when it's unpleasant the climate of personal relations is singularly bracing on to say harsh those yeah it's it's incredible that the explicit well homophobia and also misogyny and homophobia and its accessory misogyny or maybe its basic misogyny it's just I was just astonished by this yeah and she ended to be just this bastard asparagus was in a text called to curtain that not the speech that the campus speech it was in an article published by in this snow explicitly my Koons that has a magnet matter for him it is really important it is really good so dancing and wondered so that made me thankful that made me wonder about the the sort of subterranean likes between this book and that working the first pizza one way if you don't mind but first so I just want to say this book is really beautifully translated it's really I would never have I mean most books that are trans carry the marks of their of having them translated and having been having trans laughing where's the translator myself I doubt just how hard it is to to avoid but somehow this does not treat us as having been translated and so I was looking to put Nicolas Elliot on the spot perhaps inappropriately just ask you to do that many I mean how did you manage to do so it's really quite a movie well I benefited from Oakland booth and the food changes to say that the original test Williams text what we haven't been talking about engaging to the ideas that he's also a silence it's a beautifully written text and what that means is that it's very very specific which makes it hard because you have to get it right but it also helps a lot because there is a right answer there is clarity in the words I mean not translating the biography of the flow Barre class not translated flow bears worth or that that can seem very scared but when you get into it you see that the choices are so specific and I find that with voided as well so that helps a lot and then I have to admit that I also had an incredible copy editor at Harvard who he's Robin to polishes things but but it's that it's that he has he has silence so if you catch the rhythm and I need to be cheesy a wave of it a health law that's so interested in guessing you have a fantastic style in French but that it can make things more difficult I mean what I mean hearing you talk about CP snow made me think about an incredibly difficult passage which I think it's the beginning of the second type of a trillionth literature which is the CP snow passage where William who sets the scene for I mean how long is that sentence I suspect it's 200 words long as it's a full page sentence where he's setting the scene in this lecture in a hall in Cambridge in 1961 and it's deep into architectural detail into something that escapes me completely but if you get granular with it there's a lot of French prose that is very loose and that's a lot of extra words that don't belong there that's not the case of Williams because if you look closely you will find that every word means something specific and it's there for a reason and so if you have the patience and the right dictionaries and maybe the right friends and very trying to authors and answer your question on your email and which isn't always the case I will have translator there's there's a solution there well I mean my hats off to this fantastic thank you I was really to have residual state of the warnings earlier than and actually me so at the end for that things I mean it was okay also I would just like to ask you about myself what gay is is it's really a departure for you in terms of genre as well as as subject and put this ending on played out right now it is on 112 you observe the nature of literature you observe homophobia and antimatter are fighting the same fight basically and so that made me think that there was a kind not at all clear continuum between this which is which is just to finish on the original sharing the additional food discourses against leadership but they found interesting in those traces of food yet on CB s– news speech was the fact that there was a strong continuity between what snow said in the 20th century and the same aerobic attacks against literature at the end of the fifteenth century of the in the sixteenth century and so what the whole point was strange and weird was the fact that there was that futility of phobia against literature based actually on movies and because of it says that office was the first poet and also the inventor of same-sex love so after we lost our innocence so so there so the methodological reason behind that food the best but the fact that there is that continuity between the end of the Middle Ages and the 20th century in the finals of Medicine ancestry in the 18th century and all the literature in the same people have changed it was not the same structure but the argument was the same so so for me was proof that there is very strong utility in the argument against literature and so and lot of repetitions even if that changes so many and for me it was proof that antigen from cannabis system I mean a widow with four kinds of arguments specific arguments general arguments and and this system is a kind of foundation of and the very real situation our literature even the future itself is changing between the in that's my theoretical position and the fact that we can talk about each other from other communities since antiquity to today it's only because maybe our weather reasons is those arguments against against each other that's our real that mark the reality so and schools about the hatred of literature yes sir is any different oh no I mean in terms of form because it's my first day ever right that is not about literature second literature of course plays rule in the book as because pleasure own life gave back so so of course it appears somewhere in the the complaint it is not about about literature maybe the link between the two books and between this book about us okay and my other books about digital is the fact that manias and that's okay so again is can project not after equal I suppose it was something as they'd transfer policy of sex marriage you may know that in France 2012/2013 went on so long and proposed that the citizens manage it was love debate Trish political tensions in Paris especially with hundreds of thousands of persons marching against same-sex marriage with with a lot of phobic scientist it was limited and it's lasted for months and it's before for I think for LGBT people this land of nutrition was something you and I I we for the first time we experienced phobia in the street made made by proposed by our and the girls both models under similarity that phobia describes team and that was for the first time we could put the plate so so I respected and and really made me think that discuss talk with friends and I I wrote papers about some deposition for same-sex marriage but from it was not it was not enough I think I could do something more profound something that could can make explicit the the difference of our feeling is something like women have to make explicit the kind of difference experience gay people and Reggie's provision of gay people and gay know it's just I truthfully about for myself people like myself but but the way this experience is so is different from the experience of the from the discourse of the public people who marched in the industry and so I thought I wanted to to found a fewer personal experiences I could have my life and and to show through those experiences how there was difference of feelings difference of of thinking and maybe a different knowledge I had a society and life because I am gay in the society that is mainly and heterosexual and hetero center because I passed the center how what is how is it to be minority as we gay person in the society that is in as majority heterosexual and that is not aware of being a transitional and so we're maybe different sexual sexual orientation is somehow invisible from people outside so this kind of experience of when already feeding and this plays a role in the way my marginal thing plays a role in the way by minds and I think aka President Lyndon Johnson who was was wasn't it and so I linked between this book and the other most of our charities somehow this feeling of being external to the society to be in service as soon as it ages I am not part of society adjusting the margins and somehow I have to sing the scientific or technological age with my research our usual research object which is to judge others I always try to study literature from the outside most of from the from the from the outside discourses about sources that writers writers but but I I find quite interesting to extract myself from the objects of stated object and so you it seems to me as no I was just thinking I think you mentioned times because not to buy them but to sell this book one of the games with to to be interesting come the many interesting things about this book are that it is written in the second person so to which is unusual and also that it's structured and you would dress this to a certain extent but but it when I said what I was thinking it would be very different if you you you say a certain point could be but no third person could be read from the first person therefore written of the first person it would be very different no actually I don't want to talk about myself I mean I didn't want to do that but they had I had to because because it was the project it was not a subjective project gnosis project it was literature the idea was to find in the real concrete experiences the traces of those this difference of thought but I could have done that as a sociologist by instigating the last of the game and I love you so much it or not the time to do that work objective subjective study I had was my self so so I had to take myself as an objective experiment to try to make explicit to may be obvious what is obvious so I had to talk about myself but I just know and for me it was I first trying to write the first person I wrote two or three chapters like that and I just had tried to do that the servers with the third person without us without the name just did that but then it was quite maybe 3d possibly but it was not able to attract or to develop a head massage why because I'm right and he said that's not not not not but the French in is not only focus is also for for nouns objects that are masculine so there is no it in French so if I finally if I have to use to use ear just to work make to avoid repetition or world in the previous sentence that the confusion between the yield of the cocktail and the unit of the nouns so the confusion oh I see so if you only said yes I guess I just magical magical product they have right I could also use initial but I use initial so it's just a possibility but with the character that you expect maybe the reader would have expected something like fiction or inattention not attention which I don't want to because I'm not knowledge I didn't much matter or something so it was to develop on it so I thought about microwaves you know that his notebooks and thoughts from himself and he writes and the sickness and wonderful so I thought that very powerful because it was for me the g7 person who was way too objective eight myself to place myself as an object to make to make the distance between myself a message and as to engage to dynamic with and we had then the writing to liberate a lot of it maybe that shouldn't upset but rather isolated music's I was makes made easier by chosen cylinders and for I think so for me the choice between person was heuristic because it had to use define used to find the facts I I wanted to say a new attribute here objective eight myself but I think it has also with you your image also projects well I didn't want you to write a systematic theory although I assume concepts I want to introduce in the bouquet and set that kind of describe just the difference there is between some somebody who uses the margins and whose morality is not recognized by the audience and so I introduced like the mess or its horse might not even from history reconfirmation is transmitted but they wanted to fragile work which can't actually from and and so yes look but I don't want you to write treaty treatise about treaties about how to get fleet was I really found the furniture form really interesting in the back panel and at school at work and I found that it was but nevertheless actually I had to build a neater so actually that is it's a particular order but the a particular order is composed and it's because I when I found that nothing would not be at that place that should be elsewhere I changed just the title so you can read you can read the book in many ways but well this is really a question on me because I'm not I'm in history and not literature so laughter but I've been thinking about this business and hatred of literature but if you think it's in some periods at the end of the 19th century in the beginning of the 20th century when the bourgeoisie was very concerned about their young girls and what they were exposed to and when at that period somehow the novel was really sort of the ultimate product of literature I mean I think some people didn't even think that there was there were other kinds of literature other than the novel and these these bourgeois families really do want their girls to read novels so that although it's not totally hatred against literature still I mean there's a terrible amount I mean it was almost I'm not saying it was the same thing but some of these can defy me etc I wonder whether or not they really thought that all the original is suspect I mean this is just a question to me in this history of the attacks against each other it's that most of those attacks are there to protect children and women because children and women were not deemed especially in the modern time and since set in the 18th and 19th century when the tea to be added more autonomous you have to be able to read correctly so they will be subject to all kinds of misunderstandings and they could not defend themselves from the commercial science eatables so really the most of those attacks in those centuries made in the name of children and and women that at the basis of people one supposed that to be really the real autonomous leaders and so it has of course love to do about in those societies pollution are optional but in the name of enlightenment also wanted to prevent the achievement you meet the famous fabula from latin so so really the arguments of the defense of treatment always together it was women are kind of children so it's like this it seems to me this is the great irony of the trial of Madame Bovary is then in fact she that what happens to her happens because for the very reason that Flamel was that cause the trial that is to say women can't tell fix back from fiction and therefore if you give them they won't be able to have the requisite distance ramen which is exactly what happened said I'm I'm over and but of course it was that's fluent whales and his and his correspondence between tribute to him he's basically her her problem specifically that she can she's a demonstration of the argument against it thank you so much I have a question about that pocket so basically if I remember well I think the American point on Canada fifties wrote something about the fact that the experience of gay men and African American would be a sealer in many ways and so there's an experience of being the minority that seemed however that felt I've seen that at a conference in for instance where he did not know very smooth when I raised that topic I was just wondering if the Satmar again can be also another kind of knowledge not necessarily gay it is there is such a thing as the knowledge food gayness or can be comparable to another kind of minority in terms of knowledge yeah they are very question man versus the fact is that I think this balancing game is very comparable to other experiences made by other magnets and all kinds of matters ethnic religious woman magnet as number but it is a social and so representing and they're representing a society behind the world but for example one of the disparities I made as a gay person was the dominance of made heterosexuality poor man it is she who who actually stretches the whole society and is something from which I felt extreme and it's my whole experience and I when this experience of mainly through sexual dominance is also the experience of women and I I had some interesting dialogues with women read the book and have exactly the same the same the same so in this respect there is comparison possible possible comparison between this minority experience and the experience of women there is maybe and the fact that you are when Robinson says that black people are in physical demand is also my experience many ways many situations where I am invisible not the same exact way but I people because I'm I'm not recognize us what I am so bad it's different there is a similarity so there is a perhaps possible and some celebrities that work there and I'm not we want to say that the sexual orientation is a middle most the most powerful difference there is in society I do not say that I think that ID social differences classes are much more important the way – but but nevertheless situation is something that exists and that plays a role into the construction – in video but maybe there is one difference and between the expense of my of marginality from vegetable and from one of my charities is something that was expressed by no the only the advantage of the black against gay against is that the black child the black black child doesn't have to can spare that's it and I think that's a different is what's important that is gay or lesbian child discovers himself or herself different from his parents other minorities are women there are other minorities are part of the community black people to use although not gay they work they are poor they grow up in families that are mainly and that finding the difference in the family itself it's a among the people who are closest to you is something that is really the foundation of the gay experience maybe and that is something that that makes a straight you are when you go to openings about this period of literature and force you know within literature itself because we're talking about powers to know for example really thinking about ovaries novel readings here she she's reading you know sort of feminine sentimental novels which are you know not the type of literature that's what that's doing so I was very you know that's becoming a whole time in numerous writings that literature in this commercial not suffering what do you think about that especially this question to me and everything on the bus and how you know these criticizing this little girl mu something beautiful yeah yes sort of an annoyance this within literature itself it's also the same you know that when writers to write about literature there are always writing about themselves and about their bondage and that's why it makes their writings and the speculative or reflective which reflexive writers I mean when the teacher works we'll talk about it works I mean this also we can say finish work that happens with I mean I don't want you to meet you yes madam Hawaii is enough to do that much better than that needeth but I think that's yes I mean that's a right there is a kind of new definition of boots and bad leadership I show that always happens and that's that's so the writers are not innocent and especially as from everywhere that's damn ok so that's what I said before I mean the the when from that talks about the hatred of literature it does not mean it's not maybe a testimony of a real country it is estimate whether the testament of the position he wants to occupy in the society as a kind of the enemy of society and so that so maybe he translates in the bourgeois position what this is own point of view about the faculties on hatred against policy against the society itself and and so it's a strategical place for making integer optimum thing besides society that is not in the society that is hated by the parasite which is the truth but it's it's a tragic tragic position but so this hatred is must be from Philly to but there are other kinds of a tree at a magician but are very rare I mean some some our religious move against us that is not fiction but even snow does not a t-shirt he responds no but the other fact is when he rose and that were phobic statements against addition and the same time Alan Turing himself vanished because of their sexual relationship with with other special scientific so it was the conjunction the meeting about really so so that's that's something to do with him not to but this this is not no really no religion I think it's reasonable it's found its fullest yes here is a little about you know the Salman Rushdie transnational I did not think that into because it is a specific attack against you against proprietor and so I did not read that as a general attack against which there is no so far as I know it was no general fatwa against novels against there was no son fatwa from belt it was I think Afghanistan when oh and in it happens sometimes example actually I give the example of the famous example the famous in France transy at the end of the sixteenth century so here the diameter localities books from parts all kinds of hoods were round so that's one that was real agent against Asia that was hated for religious reasons and that first one the real legend comes mostly from religious reasons and but you find most often real hatred against boost because species books valve against general literature as I said so if I didn't talk about specific attacks about censorship much bigger but the general attacks against JA are rather not rare that's the less but I find it quite interesting fact that literature as itself will be attacked and would be condensed because it's so you see it's a way of thinking about that to making a whole of a poor hansel schools because we all know that but but the fact that it is and has met all the rules that is ten something about special concession of literature devoted possession of so so I found that quite interesting in reading ability to indicate the importance and project I have I have a lot because they started because i i i finished sebagai quite risky for swedish just after I finished it and then I couldn't start a new book and I just making presentations of leads and SFX oh so did but the scheduling is quite full in that time thank you so much for coming I would just like to I think there's some point and some looks so thank you

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