Webinar: Improving Gender Balance and Equalities – A Literature Review

good afternoon and welcome to our webinar today on improving gender balance and equalities I'm Evelyn Wilkins and I work in the communications team at the general teaching Council for Scotland and I am joined by dr. Heather Earnshaw education officer at improving gender balance Scotland education Scotland and dot Sarah McGann senior lecturer and developmental psychology Edinburgh University so we could be with you this afternoon and in the webinar today Heather and Sarah hope to engage in discussion about how gender stereotypes can have a negative impact on both boys and girls and how earlier as professionals and teachers can actually challenge gender stereotypes in their classrooms the webinar is being broadcast live and will be recorded and posted on our website afterwards or webinar participants are muted and we cannot see or hear you hopefully the technology will not let us down today but please bear with us is to experience any technical difficulties if you do have any problems with vision or sound please consider that it may have something to do with your own broadband connection but please do let us know so that we can see if there are any problems that we need to be aware of please do feel free to send in questions throughout the webinar and Sarah and Heather will answer as many as they can in a discussion session at the end of the webinar if we receive a number of questions on the same point or theme we may respond in one overarching answer rather than individually we hope you enjoy the webinar and we'd really appreciate it if you could provide us with feedback afterwards you can do this by completing the online survey which will launch once the webinar is finished or by emailing us at communications at GTCC or guk I'd now like to pass you over to Sarah and Heather who are going to begin the webinar now thank you thanks and I think now I should all be seeing my screen so I'm Heather Unruh Thank You welcome welcome to the webinar thank you very much for signing in Sarah and I wanted to start by asking two questions so let's see if I can get this to work it I should be able to launch a question on your screens and just looking at how confident you feel about recognizing gender stereotypes and and I've got some responses you and I'll leave it another couple of minutes while everybody else has a chance to vote thank you you I'm going to close that and I can share the results with everybody then without spending too much time on that I'd like to ask a second question if that's okay before we go on to the main presentation so that's the second question open you you and again I'm going to close it and quickly show the results and then I'll hide that so thank you that's really helpful for for Sara and I so I'm going to talk initially about their kind of background to the program how it was established and then I'm going to hand over to Sara he'll talk about the research that underpins what we're doing and then I'll talk again about and I suppose in more detail about exactly what it is that we do through the program so this is my improving gender balance and equalities in one slide slide and and I our overarching aim is trying to improve gender balance in subject to race and learner pathways and we're doing that by working with early years practitioners primary and secondary school staff and around identifying ways to challenge gender stereotypes to understand and address unconscious bias and and how to do that in a whole establishment health setting or whole school approach and why are we doing that so this is just looking at STEM subjects but mainly because of my background a specific seat ship and this graph is looking at sqa data for stem hires over the last 30 years on the x-axis at the bottom and and for each graph it's showing each line sorry it's showing the percentage of entries for that subject that are male so physics which I used to teach is the third line down the blue line and physics for the last 30 years has been fairly consistently and about 70% boys and about 30% girls and other subjects have different proportions but for me the key thing is that we know that subject uptake is gendered but that had little change has been in those graphs over the last 30 years despite the fact that we know a lot of people are bidding a lot of work to try and shift those patterns the Institute of Physics which is where the project started have been doing a lot of work into what kinds of things might make a difference specifically to increase the proportion of girls who take physics at a level they were working in England at that point and they find that the kinds of things that people still suggest to me might have an impact things like having lots of role models and having talks around physics and what can do introducing speakers into the school those things can have a small effect but it tends to be quite a small effect and so if we want to have the larger scale change then something else is needed to and they they continued looking into the problem and trying different effects and decided that one of the things one of the something else's might be around social and cultural attitudes and that that was backed up by other pieces of research for example with aspires at Kings and King's College in London and so Sarah will talk more about this in a minute but this is just kind of a snapshot of what I mean by social cultural attitudes these are word prides and generated by s1 these are girls s1 girls I've gone to automatic mode when asked about and I go back asked about jobs they associate with women and jobs they associate with men now it is quite a leading question but I think it's interesting that the two sets of words are quite different so the words they associate with women are sorry if I go back to female jobs nothing wrong of course with any of those jobs but it is I would argue quite a narrow selection of jobs mostly focused on appearance and caring professions whereas girls perceive the boys as just having more jobs there were just more words in that word quite and if we ask for use the same question they give very similar responses and and so the improving gender balance Scotland project was set up in 2015 and it was a partnership between the Institute physics education Scotland and skills development Scotland and it was established to trial interventions with early years primary and secondary schools to co-develop and trial interventions to try and tackle that persistent gender imbalance in the interest that young people have and then the subjects they choose later under pathways they choose beyond math again and and I think I'm going to hand over to Sarah now I sorry I was thrown slightly but my flights moving on one I didn't expect them to I'm going to hand over to Sarah and I to talk about the research that underpinned the pilot project I hope everyone's got and my first screen up and can view it now and so my name's Sarah McGowan I'm a senior lecturer in developmental psychology based in my house School of Education in sports and when I was involved in the recent literature review which was published by improving gender balance and equalities in education Scotland and today I'll be talking about what the research says with regards to a gender differences or gender stereotypes and how we can challenge or tackle these and within the classroom so I'll be taking a researcher formed approach to understand similarities among and differences between boys and girls and I'll be talking about gender stereotypes and unconscious bias what we mean by these terms and the impact that they can have within the classroom and finally I'll talk about research and forms approaches to tackle gender stereotypes and evidence of their effectiveness as well so the term gender differences is one that you're probably all be very familiar with and a term that you may be less familiar with it's gender similarities and which is quite ironic really because gender similarities is a much more accurate term to reflect what we know about the atitude skills and abilities of children and young people now meta analyses have been carried out and these are synthesis of large scale research studies looking at sex differences and specific topics and what these are meta analyses have shown is that in a number of studies is absolutely no evidence of sex differences and then in about 78% of studies and the evidence of sex differences suggests trivial or very small differences between boys and girls in cognitive psychological and educational domains and this is also reflected with an attainment data as well so if we think about the large-scale international comparison studies of Tim's that's the trends in international mathematics and science study this is a study which is carried out every four years or so and typically 50 60 M countries participates looking at the maths and science attainment and of children and young people aged approximately nine and thirteen and in many of these countries is absolutely no evidence of sex differences in math and science attainment in some countries there is evidence and effects differences but sometimes these will be in boys favour and sometimes in girls favour when we look at reading research and pearls is a comparative to AB Teutons so pearls again is a large-scale international comparison study looking at the reading attendant of children approximately age 9 and again typically 40 or 50 countries participate now what you do find when it comes to reading a team it is evidence of much more consistent sex differences and these in girls favor and so the differences in attainment for reading are much more robust than much more consistent than the sex differences that you find for maths and science despite this there's still considerable variation in the scores of boys and considerable variation in the scores of girls and considerable overlap em as well now Hyden Lin in 2006 argued that focusing on sex differences and socializing children according to their sex will restrict children young people from realizing their potential what we do know is despite the fact that there are very narrow almost no sex differences of skills and abilities there are very strong sex differences when it comes to subject specific choices as Heather demonstrated within that graph or when it comes to career outcomes or career aspirations and I suppose the main take-home message that I'd like you to get from this is that the choices that children and young people are making are not a reflection or not an actual reflection of their skills and their abilities so what do we mean when we talk about gender stereotypes and unconscious bias or gender stereotypes are basically stereotyped beliefs that we have about what boys and girls can and should do okay so they're descriptive okay they describe what we think boys and girls can do but also prescriptive as well prescribing what we think boys and girls should be doing and researchers often draw the distinction between explicit and implicit gender stereotypes and when asked directly and teachers children and young people will often deny explicit gender stereotypes and yet when we test them implicitly there is evidence that they're there for example they may be faster to associate the word boy with science and faster to associate the word girl with reading and these implicit gender stereotypes that we hold those are a result of the environment that we've been raised in they're a result of our kind of social and cultural and context what would be my unconscious bias this is basically automatic cognitive thought processes of learned stereotyped the spontaneous or unintentional but our unconscious biases CAF can have an impact on our languages and our behavior now gender stereotypes and unconscious bias can have an impact across all education settings from the early years right the way through to primary secondary and further education as well and they can have a negative impact on em teachers on children and on young people so it's really important to be critically reflecting the biases that we may have the gender stereotypes that we hold and how these influence our language our thoughts and our behaviors as well as I said the biases that we have are as a result of the environment that we've been based in and we need to think about the messages that we want to send to the next generation of learners so gender stereotypes and unconscious bias can have a negative impact on both boys and girls and I think a lot of research and a lot of focus most recently has been looking on girls and the negative impact of gender stereotypes on girls particularly in relation to stem and but there's also a very strong negative impact of gender stereotypes and boys indeed it's been argued that gender stereotyping is more restrictive for boys and it is for girls the boys are bound by stricter rules of gender conformity than girls are and whereas girls are more likely to be encouraged to transcend gender boundaries so for example girls are more likely to encourage to pursue activities or subject choices that have historically been more masculine orientated but boys are very are less likely to be encouraged to transcend these gender boundaries so it does seems to be something about gender stereotyping that makes it more restrictive at present for boys and for girls gender stereotypes and unconscious bias can have a negative impact on boys academic engagements and their reading and writing as well so with regards academic engagement and Castle fatale and 2014 I made the point that male students experience a fundamental conflict it's increasing effort into the schoolwork or following rules of school and maintaining a cool and masculine image in front of their peers in other words boys lower academic engagement is as a result of their ability or their desire to demonstrate or verify the masculinity in my own research I'd be looking at the negative impact of gender stereotypes and boys reading and writing what I've done is I have carried out research which has looked at these large-scale international comparison studies and as I said earlier what you see is much more consistent and wider differences and in the reading and writing skills of boys compared to girls when we look at a maths and science for the really isn't strong evidence of gender differences in my research I've been looking at children's gender identity that is the extent which they identify with traditional masculine or feminine traits and what you find is that reading and writing are gendered children who identify with more feminine traits and were motivated to read and enjoy reading more than children who identify with more masculine traits with regards to girl's gender stereotypes and quantifiers have a negative impact and girls science and maths and so for example the zoo and an interesting study published em last year by Miller and colleagues this was a meta-analysis looking at five decades of draw scientists studies and what they found is that over the last five decades and children's depictions of scientists have become more gender diverse over time and yet they're still more likely to draw male scientists and this is particularly true for boy the girls are beginning to show more female scientists when it comes to math we know that stereotypes threats has a negative impact on girls math performance even when they deny explicitly holding gender stereotypes so there's clearly a lot of way to go em in order to reduce the negative air gender stereotypes associated with maths and science now as part of the literature review and what we shared with evidence-based approaches in order to challenge gender stereotypes and on reviewing the research I would say the quality and quantity of research available is good and but I think there's definitely an opportunity to develop this and I think that through the improving gender balance in a quality program there's an opportunity for you to try out things within your classroom to evaluate them and to share your learning and with other colleagues as teachers you're important agents in combating gender stereotype ways of thinking and gender stereotypes education choices and today I would say the research which has looked at ways to challenge gender stereotypes has broadly focused in four different areas so the first is to raise awareness of implicit and explicit gender stereotypes among teachers and students and I think that engaging in the improving gender balance and equalities program and the resources that they offer is a really good way to kind of start that journey another approach is to be make is to make the learning environments as unbiased as possible and ensure that schools and use materials that promote gender equality so this means sort of removing em textbooks or posters or resources and which really em ingrain these and gender stereotype notions so maybe introducing children to books where you have generated core characters or characters who are engaging in yet and diverse activities and but one of the points that we made from research is that these messages need to be given very clearly and very consistently because for you sometimes find is that when children are asked to recall information from these books often they will distort or misremember information to align it more with gender stereotypes that they're more familiar with and this is because a lot of gender stereotypes are just deeply ingrained even at quite a young age and other approach which has been suggested is to provide children with opportunities to develop skills and success in gender stereotype domains and this means ensuring children's early pre experiences are very diverse and very broad and there was also an interesting study carried out by master Thailand published in 2017 in which they gave six year old children the opportunity to practice and programming robots and prior to doing this both boys and girls held the view that and technology was more for boys and the boys were better at it but after taking part in the activity girls reported more interesting more confidence and introduced if technology compared to girls who hadn't received the same em intervention and other approaches are about avoiding the use of gendered language within the classroom and very often we use language which has gender cues within it so for example fireman or air hostess so what next for earlier sectors with schools our social context context in what gender beliefs and behaviors are defined is constructed in your setting you can choose to reproduce the dominant gender ideologies that exists or persist in our society or you can choose to challenge them I think a whole school approach is always going to be optimal and in order to have sort of clear and consistent messaging but if this is something that you feel really passionate about doing and you look through your schools ready to start this journey and then maybe try introducing some activities within your own class and share your learning with other people finally I just like to make a point which i think is quite important and that that is that there's nothing wrong with children and young people behaving in gendered ways okay children and young people should be encouraged to behave in ways that reflect their personalities what is problematic is when they start to believe that their choices and opportunities in life are restricted because of preconceived notions of gender and I think this is what the improving gender balance and qualities program is is trying to tackle what I'll do now is I'll pass back over to Heather now and we'll talk a little bit more about the program thanks Sara and so I'm just going to build on what Sara's talking about and say how those can afford areas that she identified as being useful ones to act on in schools and nurseries and and how how we've seen that play outs with the pilot project and how we're taking it forward now so I suppose the first one is for me is around challenging children and young people to recognize gender stereotypes and and to recognize as Sarah said and I think I alluded to at the beginning that there's a difference between their explicit opinions and thoughts and the implicit ones so so when I showed the the word Clyde's at the jobs earlier I'm pretty confident that if I'd asked those children if they thought there were jobs that men or women couldn't do they would have been that pretty adamant that no of course not but anybody can do everything but when we dig a bit deeper there were implicit assumptions about what kind of jobs were open to different kinds of people and so what activities can we can we embed in there in our teaching in our curriculum in our interactions that help surface those opinions and help us have conversations with young people about where those opinions have come from whether they are valid opinions whether they apply to all girls or boys and this is a very simple activity where this was done this particular one with a P for class asked to write down words they associate with girls and words they associate with boys and again that I don't for a minute think that everybody in that class would say that all girls fitted into the the word Clyde in the left and all boys into the one on the right but there are very different kinds of words than the two-word Clyde's and so I think that's a good starting point for asking questions about do all girls do all boys fit into those categories what if you're a child he doesn't fit into one of those and can can so that one of the big ones for the girls is kind can boys be kind are all girls kind and and that when I first started working on this I think I said at the beginning I came from a physics teaching background and I wasn't sure how this kind of conversation would play out in there this is as I said a p4 class and but I've watched teachers have just amazing conversations with young people who really want to discuss this kind of thing and the kinds of messages they're receiving and there's so many different ways that we have gendered messages woven through our society and so there's so many ways in which you can start to unearth as the gender sinking and this again these two activities were around jobs so the one on the left was just simply a p3 class I think sorting jobs and to where they for girls or for boys and actually that class themselves they done a bit of work with the teacher it was the the young people themselves who said no but actually we need a category in the middle for both and the one on the right was that same class drawing people in a range of professions and then naming them and then again discussing who had so I think all the scientists or all almost all the scientists have male names almost all the teachers had female names and again we could have a conversation or the teacher I could have a conversation about and who can do what kind of job what skills are needed for what kind of job and who has those kind of skills and all those skills gendered and they're probably not so and again helping to unpick assumptions that young people have already absorbed and through bricks and again sarah made reference to this but at any age I mean from early years up to s5 s6 I've had teachers I've worked with using bricks to again um either show an alternative to the standard stereotypes or using more traditional text to to discuss the stereotypes and I think also thinking about this my feeling is that there are a lot of examples of books that are showing girls like Rosie Revere engineer showing the feminine kind of activities but we don't have so many and again Sarah alluded to this we don't often talk so much about boys being kind or boys being caring and so I like the smartest giant and down and goodnight mr. Tom for that and there are lots of other examples I'm not for second suggesting those are the only ones so I think all of those that Stran for me is about equipping our young people to recognize and the gendered messages agendas thinking that there were all of us constantly bombarded with toys toy marketing is another good example and and allowing them to challenge that thinking to challenge our in thinking to challenge each other and actually also to then challenge that the adults around them and I think for that to have a long-term impact then that needs to be planned for it needs to be consistent and sustained throughout a young person's experience through school so so I think a one-off lesson mp3 by itself probably isn't going to shift things but if as a whole school or as a cluster and that's something that's revisited regularly then I think it does begin to impact what people are thinking and and I think the other bit of it for me is maybe specifically around the text and is one a head teacher that we work with in the pilot was recognizing that her staff had been a bit awkward at first about having those conversations and about bringing stereotypes to the fore with a class but the head teacher said but once you see it you can't unsee it and so once her staff became more aware of how gender feeds into so many messages that we receive all of us constantly and once you've seen it you can't unsee it and so they felt it became much more natural in their practice to kind of point things out and for it to become just part of the conversation that happens every day in the classroom and the second strand then I think is probably the trickiest and that's the bitter by us as the adults in the classroom having our own unconscious bias and being open to recognizing that that affects how we interact with young people in front of us in different ways and and everything I'm about to talk about I absolutely did when I was a physics teacher so I can think back on my practice and recognize patterns of behavior that I didn't challenge at the time and expectations that I had but again I didn't necessarily think about food for example we know that research suggests that whole class interactions tend to be dominated by boys not all boys in any given class but there tends to be a subgroup of more dominant boys who are more likely to offer answers are more likely to offer to volunteer are more likely to show tight and and that's probably not because we are selecting them more often because they're boys but they've learned to dominate and they've learned to be more visible and so we respond to that and and again when I talk about that I've got one particular s3 class that I can really think of and and so I think us as teachers we need to be thinking about how do we support the less visible people to have a voice but also actually how do we support those children who learned to dominate how do we support them and learning to be less dominant in that and I think that has to go both ways and I think some of that needs to go some of that probably is around structural change about how we operate in classrooms so I know I've worked with schools where they've implemented the new hands up policy for example and that allies are more and think pair share tech strategy show me boards all those kinds of things that we would recognize as being nothing new or innovative at their just good teaching but allowing everybody to have a voice in the classroom and something that again I haven't particularly thought of until I got involved in this program was how even subtler ways of in which we interact with individuals can can depend on the gender of the individual and other protective characteristics but so for example the way we might scaffold questions the way the kinds of feedback we might give and so I don't want to talk too much about the research but I think there are really subtle ways in which we interact with young people and that takes quite a lot of openness and honesty in ourselves and working collegiately to recognize and then try and change Farrah's mentioned language already and i suppose the other thing I wanted to touch on with around expectations of people but also what we attributes success and failure to so research suggests that we're more likely to attribute success in boys and physics and math for example to being about innate abilities that they're just really good at civics or math whereas when girls attain well we're more likely to attribute to them just working just working hard and and conversely if they don't do well with the girls were more likely to say what we're just not really good at physics math whereas the boys were more like to say well they just were a bit lazy that didn't work very hard and I've read that research and it wasn't until very recently that I thought again and I've been out of the classroom for almost four years and I looking back to young people and the kinds of conversations I have with them after tests for example I think I was probably more likely to say to boys who didn't do as well as they expected well did you do enough revision whereas two girls I was probably more likely to say did you understand the material other things you need me to explain to you and that's quite subtle but I think that will then have a real impact on on those children about whether they think yeah I just didn't work hard enough but I'm quite good at it or no I didn't understand I'm not very good at it so I think this is probably the trickiest one I think it's the one that takes most personal reflection and and will take a long time to chip away at I think to change our practice in the classroom because passions and the early learning childcare settings are such busy places and my team is hoping to launch a kind of online blended learning module and to support this reflection to support tweaks to practice so look out for that that will hopefully come in the autumn and this I think sarah has really touched on but it's about the kind of destructuring thing structural things looking at the environment so if you look at just the classroom walls the school walls that the feel of the school of assessing and through a gendered lens then either posters but maybe could change other subtle messages so for example one nursery I was visiting quite recently was saying that the name tags that are pre-prepared when children start at the nursery at the beginning of the year and traditionally the girls names had things like butterflies and flowers on them whereas the boys tended to have I can touch remember what it was but it was different it was trucks and dinosaurs or something and a nobody had set to do that deliberately but that was something they were looking at changing so they're really subtle messaging and that girls and boys like different things some of that looking at the environment of course could be done through the eyes of young people so people voices again but in early years primary and secondary schools I've worked with or I've worked with teachers who've been supporting people groups to look at this look at the environment that the wider aspect of the environment and instigate changes the signs of the environment what I was thinking there was around again it touches on the language that Sara reference but also subtle things so is sexist enter allowed and do we do you hear references around you know oh you're such a girl or manner poor or or again things like I can I need two strong boys to help me move that so again shuffle things around language that anyone event won't have an impact but all those kind of constant microaggressions do build up to an impact keep you an eye on the time here and then the last one again Sarah reference this but I think is about how do we make sure that we're building confidence and skills across the whole curriculum for all our young people from early years from nurseries of three to secondary schools so in early year settings for example and I have seen some fabulous settings where this is done just brilliantly and where for example if we a group of boys who aren't in general don't engage with kind of creativity literacy type activities aren't developing those fine motor skills and early pincer grip that they'll need for developing literacy later on it's important they do that but in a child led setting how do you make sure they're getting that opportunity and this particular nursery I was talking to you recently we're saying well they've got this particular group of boys who are really into robots at the moment and so they're making sure that those boys are doing a lot of drawing of robots at the moment and designing robots and so it's about embedding the curriculum into the activities and the interests that the children already have and as I say I knew that across Scotland as and all sort of nurseries mp1 Petey where that's done absolutely brilliantly but I think it takes a real confidence in the curriculum and a real flexibility to be able to adapt activities I'm on the spur of the moment so that all children are experiencing across the entire curriculum and then I think later on how do you make sure that young people are still given opportunities to engage with with the real breadth of opportunities a secondary school that I worked with and was having really good success with stem challenges I think they tended to offer it to st but they recognize that when they offered it as an optional extra thing that they tended to get the same equivalent group of boys year after year and it was a brilliant experience for those young people but it wasn't an opportunity that was been taken up you know by a by a wider cohort so they ended up running a kind of version of the challenge they took everybody of s-two off a timetable for the day and ran it across the whole day and then having allowed everybody to experience what it felt like to get to grips with that particular same challenge then said is there anybody who'd be interested in developing this a bit further and competing externally and discover that they got a much wider mix of who he was interested at that point so I think there's something about making sure that we're giving young people a chance to develop and really develop across the whole breadth of skills but also as children get older making sure that we're planning ways to get children to try things they think they might not be interested in are things that hasn't occurred to them they might interested them and I know I have another point there and I think the other yes the other bit I think in there is about when older children are choosing things that are non-traditional and that we're thinking carefully about how we support them and build the kinds of resilience that they will probably need if they're going to go into post school courses where they're in a minority so whether that girls into construction courses are boys and two primary teaching or early learning and how do we make sure they have the resilience to to meet the challenges that do come with being in a minority and so that's kind of a really quick overview of the kinds of ways that we've tried to implement the findings from Sarah's research or the research that's out there and how does that fit into a busy school because everything I've talked about takes time take some sustained effort over a long period of time takes ideally everybody within the environment within the setting to be a part of it and schools are busy and so how do we fit it in so one of the findings one of the key findings from the pilot was that schools find that really almost whatever their priority was for that school year that our approach was flexible enough but it could kind of fit in with whatever they were doing and so I guess there are gendered issues whether you're thinking about developing young workforce or you're thinking about stem or literacy or numeracy or health or well-being then there are gender issues within there and I think all the schools that work with this fine but once they started engaging with it they began to see lots of other opportunities not for the places where what we were doing could weave into the curriculum so by and large it and once they got over the hurdle of understanding what it was we were about and how it might fit in with their particular context most of the schools and early learning chakra settings that we work with find that it evolves quite naturally and I suppose the other thing is to recognize that that it can seem absolutely overwhelming but that it is about doing small things small tweaks and those small tweaks can have quite a big impact and and about having a long term view that the you're not going to fix all of this in one term or even in one school year and that may be having a three to five year plan is manageable and analyzed allies different spans of the work to come together so I'm just going to finish with where we are now so I said we established a three-year pilot in the summer of 2015 so that finished about a year ago and and we've been really lucky to have Scottish government has funded this where now we will be a team of six and working with in education Scotland as part of education Scotland and the intention is that we will have a national role light and six of us will be working regionally and this four of us and posts at the moment were about to advertise for two posts so if you're listening and you're interested please do apply and I suppose we are working to see how we can take what we learned from the pilot to relight nationally how can six of us support everybody nationally and at the moment we're very much still working with individual schools and clusters so again please get in touch if you'd like to work with us and we are looking at putting in structures to kind of develop local networks to to work together and the bitly they're the first bullet point there is the national improvement page sorry our page on the national movement hub and submit Lea / ni h IG b and we have lots of resources and links to other research and lots of ideas on there and we're on twitter so again if you are interested in would like to keep in touch with what we're doing please follow us on twitter and if you'd like any more information or if you'd like to find out how to get involved with us work with us more closely then that's my email address at the bottom and we're going to go to questions but i think before we do that i was going to ask a couple more questions if that's okay so let me see if I can remember how to do this I'm going to ask this question and I'm going to launch it thank you so those of you who are and this thing if you wouldn't mind answering this question thank you very much and again I'll let it run I complete the percentage you're answering so I will let it run for a little bit longer you you a couple more seconds for anybody else who's still thinking about how to vote okay I'm going to close that thank you very much and I'm going to share it and then I'm going to hide it and then I'm going to ask one last question and then as I said we'll go down to evylyn and see if you've got any questions for either are both me or Sarah you leave it Capital bit couple of seconds longer and get anybody else wants to vote and then I'll close it and again I can share that hi so thank you very much friends we know that would be interesting for Sara and I to look at later and even I think are there any questions actually have any questions in so I don't know if there's anything else you want to add before we finish up or if you do have any questions anyone please feel free just to submit them now you should have a little and control panel where you can type in questions and send them to us and so maybe just wait a minute or two just to see if anyone has anything else to add I think we both feel happy if people want to defend those questionnaires by air questions by email as well and we both are more than happy to connect the questions that way afterwards too so I thought that was very interesting anyway myself so thank you with very much and I think the research is it was interesting to see the workloads about what Jordan said about you know what jobs they associate their what boys and girls associate them and I think it would be interesting to see I saw your graphs over time which was showing that you know it's remained quite steady over time but whether there has been any cultural shift you know delving into that further I think that's quite interesting and you know if you read books from say 50 years ago how much has it changed and culturally in that's bit of time mm-hmm don't you're for the Israel my feelings I wonder if it's quite mixed I think in terms of books there's more awareness but I wonder if as members of society it does the same shifts to know what you think Sarah yeah I think I'd agree I think within within books there's certainly been a shift I think and but I think sometimes it is these sort of unconscious messages that we give to children that's hard it's fine to change your resources and changing materials they're very visible and yet some of us still have ingrained within us these kind of deep unconscious biases as a result of the the generation it was that we were brought up in and it's about how we become more aware of these and and make sure we don't kind of promote them in the next generation of children as well and so I think you said yourself that's a hard thing to do and but yeah I think you I think the word applies were really interesting not just looking at the types of you know possible careers for boys and girls but like you said the breadth of different opportunities as well that are available to boys and girls too because I think that a familiar voice for us – exactly yeah yeah I think very often there is a focus more on the mmm the different career paths but not so much on the other ones and my feeling is as well I mean there is a lot of folks at the moment I'm trying to encourage more girls and into STEM careers and I think part of it is as a society I think we're beginning to value those types of careers a lot more my concern is that maybe we're not valuing these earlier practitioner rules and social workers and these more nurturing rules and which are also really important and and I also think as a society we're starting to value the attributes that are more masculine such as showing leadership skills being competitive whereas attributes such as being kind and caring and compassionate they're maybe slightly under values I think as well so and yeah when you're talking about those books like the smartest giant and said and other texts as well where there's examples of your men being kind and caring I think that's really important we highlight how important these attributes are within our society it's not just about going out and getting those you know high-flying high-flying jobs actually had a couple of questions in now so we can move to them and so Andrea is asking what is your opinion on science museums and exhibitions regarding gender balance and sorry I'll just check yeah that's the whole question and well I take that one Sara and as part of the kind of wider reach of the pilot project and we did a little bit of work with some of the science centers in museums in Scotland and have a really interesting conversation about Lee about what role they play and everybody I've worked with have been really keen that that they have a role in influencing how society sees a specific the science center apparently them specifically science and who does science and there's a was a bit of a dilemma I think isn't there because if if part of their role is to show the history of science we know that the stories at tend to be told about who has historically done client tend to be by white-bearded Victorian men and and so how can you shift the perception of who does science whilst also staying true to the collection if it's that kind of a museum so I think absolutely that informal learning has a role in in shifting I guess our perceptions of stereotypes about he does what kind of jobs he does if it's a science center particularly science stem type roles hope that answers the question okay and that's great and we have one from Linda and it's very interesting really word clouds people involvement and suggested resources my work in nurseries and Fife and we are working towards gender equality and we have a question from Sylvia and she said our new trainee teachers getting this training in Scotland and regarding unconscious bias well I felt that on the game I'm not going across the board no not at the moment in little pockets we're beginning to make connections and beginning to have conversations about how that might become part of the training but it's very much in a piecemeal basis at the moment and I was really pleased that part of the I'm going to get the words for this wrong there's some something has just been launched around what's important for the training the new expanded early learning child care workforce and something around gender stereotyping is very much embedded in that which i think is good again you see how that plays out over the next few years so no not really at the moment but it's something we're aware of and hope to build on quite a number of my team it's not quite answering the question but quite a number of my team have made links with probation managers and their authorities and I know that most of them are delivering programs for probationers so it is you know that early stage career early use me early career teachers hopefully developing awareness for them that's all the questions we have now so I think we're going to shop there if there are any more questions please feel free to email them either to heather directly or you can send them to their communications and books which is just communications at t– TCS dot org dot uk' and i just like to thank Sarah and Heather very much for the webinar this evening and has been recorded so we posted on the GTC s website along with the presentation slides and I've also got download of Sarah's literature review that you might find it so interesting to read and also will link to the page on the national improvement hub where you can find more information on all sources so look up for that going up on the website hopefully we'll get em next weekend but thank you all very much for participating and you hope people have a lovely evening nice games there Thank You Think You Thanks

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