Writers Chat: One Page Critiques



No hi everybody and welcome to this week's writers chat this is the place where writers like to gather and we share information about writers and for writers and all about our writing industry so we're glad to see you all here with us today we got a lot of our regular crew and a few new faces in the chat and if you're watching this my replay welcome and thank you for taking the time to kind of grow your craft and learn more about where God's calling you with your writing my name is jean wise i'm one of the co-hosts here and i'm joined by a lot of our motley crew our regulars i demand and behind the scenes of doing our recording and that gian always adds a lot to us and then my one of my really good friends and sellers is Johnny Alexander and she's with us today – and one of the other people that helped behind the scenes a great deal with writers chat is me Norma and we asked one today and she came up with a unique ideas something we haven't tried here before and writers chat so we're gonna turn it over to Norma to share what we what the topic is today how we're going to do it and hopefully we'll invite some different people back on an office vote is the show progresses so Norma take it away well I thought it would be really neat to do a critique live and there's a lot of misgivings about critiques and so we have three brave souls who have dared to share with us a one page from their work-in-progress it and there's some being part of a critique group with new writers one of the things I've seen quite a bit is people think critique is the same as editing and they do a lot of spelling correction and grammar correction that's not really what a critique is for now if it's a really blatant bad grammatical error yeah you wanna you want to help them fix that but mostly a critique is to let people the writer know how their story flows is it reading do you have to does not make sense does a paragraph make you have to reread it several times to get the gist of it that's the may pain idea of the critique and it's not so much an editorial thing but to let the writer know how your story how the page or the what they've submitted flows as a story so with and then the other thing we we like to do is we call it the sandwich effect when you critique a lot of times there's read all over the paper and it doesn't look real pretty and a writer can get discouraged seeing we're lack of a better word of bloody page we start out first at the end where you make a comments we would start out by saying something really nice this is intriguing this is a lot of potential here and then you would go into but there's too much telling there's this there's that and then you would end with I can't wait to read more or this is good this has me intrigued something positive so you have a positive you have your critique and then you end with another positive hence the sandwich I love the sandwich technique that is such a great image but even what she said about overall critiquing because sometimes as a writer somebody will ask me I'm a nonfiction writer and they'll ask me to look at their fiction work and that is not my area of expertise but I can certainly tell as a reader if I've losing interest or if it's flowing so I really really like what you said about that on critiquing I don't know if anybody else wants to jump in and say anything about critiquing right off on that that's a great I like that help the person because an editor has their job ok great I apologize it appears to be there's technical issues on my end I'm sorry I have no idea I saw it and I thought it was me I was charging my laptop at the same time so I unplug that and I thought everything would be ok I don't know what's going on we have had some issues with our internet here the last couple days so in the Parden weather can make a difference yes and it was really stormy last night like really bad I was driving home and the rain was blowing sideways anyway so I apologize for if we all kind of freeze hopefully we freeze in pretty faces alright so without any further ado I'll go ahead and share well let me pull it up first I want to scream share what I've done and I'm gonna start with LaDonna I apologize this is my first time screen sharing so hang with me it usually takes me a few minutes to find that right walking it in there LaDonna saying yikes [Laughter] oh yeah can everybody see that yeah okay so right here where I highlighted in this very first sentence she woke feeling like her mouth was stuffed with one giant cotton ball her eyes felt like they were glued shut this is compelling the it is telling I didn't mean it's come out that way it just did so LaDonna you would want to fix this a little bit because we want to be careful from what I've learned we want to try to avoid the word like it feels like it looked like tell us what it looks like describe it to us and so as we go on throughout that and that's what I said in the note the other thing and for some reason when I redid this it didn't copyright I don't know what happened when I just now brought it up it went kind of crazy another thing she had in here that it was all correct when I when it was on the other screen I don't know what happened anyway and it's changed font in the middle – that's weird I apologize y'all I I don't know what happened anyway in here somewhere she had swish swish swish and it was capitalized and I don't see it here so in a tag next my question to you writers would be she's hearing swish swish swish should that but it's comma comma exclamation point should that be capitalized if it's in the middle of a sentence and not I remember it in there too and I can't remember what the style is on that usually when I'm doing something that emulates a sound I will give it its own line and I put it in italics and it would have left it capitalized in its own individual lines with pen with commas between them or would you put swish period swish period swish period that I don't know cuz I'm bad at grammar carrying more than a comma I would put comments and Emily capitalized the first one but I agree with Melissa I would put it on its own line that was on one thing I noticed if you don't mind my interjecting is them help with this this scene because there's some there's great opportunity for back and forth and ladonna x' work to but when you um you have your viewpoint character's head and then you have the outside force these in this instance these birds that show up they should eat at their own lines so you have the action and reaction effect and it also ramps up the tension because they're the birds are in essence a background character that's acting upon your focal character and so they do need to have their own line for everything they do and she needs her own line for everything she does or thinks and that I wasn't sure of I was kind of thinking down those same lines and yeah I have to say hey something happened cuz I had several things on here and it didn't come up my biggest thing go ahead Jim I can't get to my notes on it you took the screen and I lost mine but I remember the part where she said two large black birds were circling to the right of her head and she had another spot with like left I don't think I think she can tighten it up a little bit without putting right and left I don't think that really helps explaining the story and that would tighten her sentences up a little bit yes yes and then the one where she was feeling one of the phrases that the other thing I was right right there's a couple things I the other thing I would say is LaDonna when you submit especially for a critique you want it to be double spaced and indented so that's why we only have not everything that you submitted because by the time I double-spaced it so there because if though you went to a critique group a lot of people do it by hand to be able to write in there but anyway a couple of things I really liked so we'll have time to get onto the others and open up for discussion there I'm trying to find that sorry I highlighted it on the other one and now I can't find it I like where she said about the big strobe light overhead right on it right on it a strobe light without been easy without music was dancing instead of in her head I thought that should be overhead because you realize in a few moments that that was the Sun and so I really liked that I thought that was a good so I mean sorry yeah a good show of what was happening the other one that I really liked was and I'm looking for it where she said that something about a freight train oh there it is a freight train was traveling at high speed through her head I love that to give us to tell us how bad of a headache she had I thought that was really good I like that I put a period there took out and and then made the pain was relenting a separate sentence it just made it pop better yes yes add to Rhonda touched on it it was one thing I did as well a great thing for helping tighten your writing is to eliminate was an L IRL ing type words to make it present tense and around this a strobe light without music danced in her head so that you write in the presence of your character's head you don't feel like it's a narrator describing what's happening to her you feel like she's feeling within you're right with her because that was my main thing to you there are a lot of was in here and they all just need to be changed to past tense and and get that out of there mm-hmm and and LaDonna once you do that once you go through you yes and you're ly adjectives my brain is kind of environment apologize and eliminate all those telling words you're gonna just be amazed at how tighten this comes and how how much you feel like you're in your character's head more one real good example that is right at the near the front like about the fourth line down and it was she said heat was scorching so it's just heat scorched you know if again just get that sense of right in the air but that was the other the thing that I noticed that again in the and I already mentioned this was the likes and then I was going to talk about the was and it is like you said Johnny those are is that also part of passive yeah when you do it that way it's more active to say scorched than what scorching so you want activity good you know one thing that I like scores just such a great word and in you know so that was such it's a pair and you know it's a very powerful verb and I thought through here there I mean there's some some little issues craft issues but the story itself is compelling and also there's just a good use of the senses I mean she's smelling things tasting things there's that metallic taste in her mouth you know just there's just all these different hearing things in him so even though she's all by herself it's really I thought was really good the way LaDonna that you made heaps of different senses and we're really there with her in that emiliĀ“s is right just by then paying attention to some of these really close craft techniques it's just going to pop it is it truly is I'm glad you use the word compelling because like I said before we went on the recording I did not spend a lot of time with this but I found I did look at Madonna's and I found I really wanted to I was there you know hearing she does bring you in and I think it's the sensory stuff Johnny that you pointed out and a question as a writer in I Dorma I like what you said about watch using the word like and it's like just read but you know I love metaphors I really like the metaphor so could we try rewriting I'm trying to look what you had up here I thought I just saw an as and what you've got on the screen share them she had light here's one right here the other one soared into the air like an airplane okay how would we do though so it's still very it still uses it the metaphor you know that the comparison I want I'm curious as a writer because I do use like a lot I hate to tell you this because I love metaphors I probably too much but I'm curious for some advice on that for me as much as for I'm sure some other people in the chat that doesn't bother me so so much so I think I'm nothing mr. then not me well using like sometimes you can just say it and leave it out that I end up Gmail not seen a freight train oh I'm not seeing a freight train when are the airplane I mean the airplane one is in the first one there was another spot that one is actually okay that wasn't when I usually had highlighted but there's a couple that says feels like feels like well don't tell us it feels like describe how that feels okay so he can't be used to probably limited yes sparingly yes and sometimes you could if you're using this you know now like an airplane or in another spot she said like a dinosaur you could say had the appear similar to a plane that he soared whatever or his he reminded me of a dinosaur in the way he have his face or sometimes you can find something else for like it depends on your what's happening sometimes like is the only word that works and that's fine like is fine and this scenario like is used quite a bit okay so really watch your mouth and in the chat and I want to compliment LaDonna too many people are saying she that's a really great descriptive verbs and Doria just really a beautiful use of words not everyday words is what don about that it was so much color and Rhonda said monstrous for dinosaur think of descriptive words but she really he's got a good use of words I'm going to go back to the like a little bit because I you know it's it is hard when you just want to spur the moment trying to come up with different ways to say it but you don't want to get too wordy in that either and sometimes it's best just to say it was like this and move on rather than try to drink gymnastics but back again just to make sure we've got this planting the issue is with this first line and I know it's not really the first line the first lines are you know the blinding sunlight not but this first really first line it's feeling like and then the second line is felt like and issues there are the repetition for one which you would not want but then the other is you need to avoid words like feel no realized thought wondered all of those are taking you out of the media point of view that deep third person point of view so you want to avoid those anyway so anytime you see the word feel felt feeling you want to go back and see how you can reword that and get that word out of there a great trick for that that I found is to pretend like the senses are a character themselves how are they acting upon your character so you know you she's feeling pain what kind of pain is she feeling is it stinging as a throbbing so then when you think about the actual words then you can reformulate your sentence to convey that that sensation without using the terms feel or you know those other extra describe descriptors you don't need I've got two other picky things is okay if I sure is okay oh and to go back and this one as she looked out over the edges again you don't want to say as she looked out we know she's looking out so I did that one just say like minds of miles of ocean stretched beyond the RAF's edge and that completely takes out the they looked out over the edges and saw you don't want that you don't want that word saw and there you don't want the word looked in it and you don't need it but my pinky thing where it says there were sounds and there was a gentle rocking motion there were there was it was it is if you can avoid starting a sentence with those words those phrases do it and usually you can drop them it's amazing how often like like a third lying down that we're seeing on the screen right now and there was a gentle rocking motion a gentle rocking motion was beneath her body you don't take out that there was that is very passive and sometimes you have to have it or else again you're doing verbal gymnastics to avoid it which just makes it more awkward but usually you can just get rid of it and and easily rewrite it and my other one was searching the sentence begins with searching I think it should be right up here to table searching her mind for her last thoughts , it was blank that it doesn't refer back to anything so when you say searching her mind for her last thoughts that pronoun should be she and then the sentence needs to go on because she's the one searching her mind so if you use that kind of construction make sure your pronoun is correct this is a common mistake I mean I've made it I thought editors say hey fix this so that's you know why now I kind of look for it so make sure we got a sentence with an in verb that the rest of your Clause is going to go back to that verb in that sentence Johnny I in originally before I brought it up on screen one of the comments I had made with to perhaps take out it was blank just take that out and and it's and I had it searching her mind for her last thoughts nothing you know dot dot nothing like there was nothing there or I am saying there was nothing yeah I mean there again you got it it was which I always I just don't want that you know it's it's almost like the probably the whole sentence he rewritten he searched her mind for her last thoughts nothing that's actually probably how I would write it and get rid of the anger being all together but then you got you know the next sentence tarts with she so then it's like you know you want to vary your sentences so I mean I know that's why sometimes we start I mean it's why I start sentences this way it's very the opening but then you you know it sometimes causes more issues so you really just have to work and work or get but again LaDonna I mean it's a it is a very compelling story it's a very interesting story and these things that we're pointing out our craft things that we all have to learn and they're easy they're they're time-consuming but they're easy fixes I mean you know I loved it like what has already been stated the imagery I could picture her on the raft in the ocean the saltiness of the ocean the Sun like a strobe light the birds I mean I could picture at all it was it was great Donna questions and I don't have Mike's I wanna if we want to bring Madonna on we can if you want to do that let me know okay here's my question is this the first page of your story like the opening of your story it's the opening yes okay I've been am also going to suggest that we go ahead and give your character a name at the very beginning this is often something that you see when writers are first starting out and I think we think it feels like mysterious if the character doesn't have a name and we just give her a pronoun think pronoun but actually that's so overdone that it kind of is assigned to editors of an inexperienced writer I'll say it's like if she's a she we you know we don't know anything and by giving a name it helps the reader identify with her even more and you know defeat on the name I think her name is Nicole right we're going to have some kind of an image of Nicole in our mind where with a she we know nothing and it would be good in here if you could give us without telling age but give us some idea of is this a young woman is it's a girl is this an older woman you know just just something like you know I don't know I don't know right off the top my head how you would do that but but something to give us an indication of her age but I I would really start off with will call woke I'm not coming okay that's good it's really good I can write [Laughter] well you can go back and rewatch it on YouTube and and so relax this is good ladonna this is good stuff so please don't be discouraged you have really great great things here as I heard the word used earlier that we use often it just needs to be tightened up just cleaned up a little bit and it'll be a really good it'll be a really good story I mean we're all we're all very intrigued we want to know I want to know how did she get there how did she end up unconscious you know I want more I want more there you go that's good that's what you want like that like towards the end I get oh I think it is our very last line you know words are supposed to be two paddles just for luck I mean in that there's a little bit of personality in that phrase a little bit of that earlier too and you know those kinds of just little thought things because that is really that's really good excuse me thank you very much any of any other words for LaDonna you're muted Jean thank her again for volunteering sorry yeah yes that was that was very brave and it's a good story don't don't second-guess yourself about that just keep working on it it's good yep thank you thank you all right who's next right now let's see if I can switch to Sophia Oh Shh let's see what I did I thought I'd just closed y'all out that's about to come unglued okay let me see if I have Sophia's up give me one second I like while you're doing that I love Dory's comment about Rhonda M seeing the chat and doing nothing to give us websites go back and look yeah well work on that Rhonda that's not a bad idea resource Rhonda BAE on this best resources and have everybody else bring a resource and I think we yeah well King write that down Melissa sorry don't forget all right here's the next one let's see if it behave it was alright this is from Sofia so do we want to bring Sophia on closer towards the end or do we want to bring her on now bring on we can go ahead and bring her on and hopefully my dog well you can always meet until you have something to say alright so here we go this piece I know is a fantasy it didn't take long to figure that out this first line where I have it highlighted I feel like it's a little bit of tell a little bit yeah too much telling I'm saying down here with the threatening and the bearing there we go and I thought this I thought this part right here should maybe be by itself and then and go and then right here the Quanah closed your eyes to decrease I'm not real sure and this was my question my comment that I put in there for Sophia is I'm not when you have prose and inner dialogue should they go in a paragraph together or should it be cuz is tempered temperature focus cata temperature focus cotta that's inner dialogue right Sofia yes so then should the should that be in a separate line as it would if it was outward dialogue and then start new paragraph I'm not sure about that rule I don't know that there is a rule does anybody know it can go either way a lot of people like to treat their thought as a dialogue and then actions afterwards kendo as a beat I do have a comment about that particular one you know we're kind of jumping down to the middle of the page right off the bat but if you don't mind me making that comment you go right ahead okay so I like the inner thought the temperature focused how does she's trying to convince herself to you know get a bit control of this situation and then we're pulled out of her head with via quanta closer eyes because that's like an outside narrator it's not her thought she wouldn't think of herself as a quanta and I know why you're putting it in there you want everybody know she's another creature but I think you can cut that and say she closed her eyes and then throw a corner in in the dialogue of the guy the pursuer like show yourself a Kawana and then we see from an outside source oh she's she's not human and we kind of already assumed that anyway but now we have a name for her species to put with her but it's coming from a source it's not her so she's not thinking of herself as Makwana she knows she's in the corner that's really good yeah so um well I didn't mean to just jump right to the middle I was trying to kind of go through my thing and then let y'all talk about what y'all think but we'll go back to the top so anybody else have comments about these first couple paragraphs the first sentence yeah and there again is very first page I'm not a big fan of having a sentence where we don't know who's speaking and I hold it I kind of like that we don't know who's speaking because it's an another I mean to her this is a threatening other but then I'd like to have that not even us in the first line I guess so you know maybe something above that and then that but it does on the flip side it does immediately set up tension is that you know I mean there's some some things either way but it's something to think about because because we don't have any idea who's saying this quick and I'm gonna find worthy well I'm sorry Jay let me just finish this it's I kind of like it too that it's just like we just hit this voice is it scary that we kind of don't know who it is what it looks like who's saying it so I think because this might be one of those times when when three Trump's rules you know what I mean this might be a good time to break yeah you had me wondering what she was it's like okay I gotta keep reading and figure this out maybe so and along with that later on he this person continues to talk and I think after this initial you can't hide forever the next time he speaks we should probably be told then who he is until waiting later so I would agree with that I I agree that enough so I didn't say anything you can't hide forever that adds some drama that adds some fear that sets up the tension immediately and I like that first sentence even though you know we don't know who's talking it sounds like it's a force to be reckoned with in my mind okay that's the very end where it says you know I will find you I always do and it's like wow that's and it's like again you know you just got we don't know who this is so yeah usually I would say don't start that way this time maybe it is a good thing and I think I've got to take care of deliveries I'll be right back all right anybody else want to add right here I like I like this description actually the bearing down to increase internal pressure because this this is kind of also another indication that this is not a human being that she's able to control her internal pressure and it affects her environment so I think that that actually isn't a telling I think that that's funny I'm trying to think would I when I commented on a mic my piece in this area I think actually kind of like that line yeah the thing I was going for us I look through this this one paragraph there are several ing words and I think that's what is typically indicative of telling correct actually slowing it down and so you could actually change those to past tense and make it feel a little more immediate her chest thumped rapidly or her chest thump and threatened yeah it she forced her heart to calm this methods I mean you could you could rephrase it it would have to be rewarded but to to get rid of the ing if you don't want it to slow the thing is that she's she's going from a state of immediacy into something where she's attempting slower and herself down so using ing isn't necessarily bad you might use a past tense to try to show a transition to slow going from fast to slow yeah I didn't haven't thought more than that one anybody else all right and as I scroll down I just looked and for some reason this whole bunch right here is single spaced I do not know why my computer's actin it's possessed or something anyway I enjoyed this story I like the she shrank against the trunk of seaweed hoping to blend with its varied greens so that tells us she's color if she's wanting to blend with the greens then she must be some kind of greenish color I like that I also liked I'm looking for it um where she was hoping I mean did I pass it or she see I also like the threading one arm along the wafting blades she stealthily wrapped another around of mass of curls floating in the current I like that imagery because it sounds like she's trying to kind of be one with this sea plant my feet in her monologue where she's dialogue I'm sorry where she's trying to keep herself calm and not get caught by whoever this is that's trying to catch I like that and in that paragraph she would have found it after first meal at the end of that sentence I think I would make a new paragraph making it stand out more plus gives you more whitespace though where our Magma's when I need them that's the thought apart from her actions and so giving it its own line will make it stand out right similar to what Melissa you were saying that with ladawna x' to separate the actions from the thoughts making the actions kind of like their own character so to speak mm-hmm just like John said that adding that more whitespace it's a mental tricky and a plane with your reader too it helps their eyes move through the piece more and engages them I have a question about that because originally I had had each thought on a separate line but I almost found that to be distracting yeah and like I said before it's okay to put it in with some of the descriptions too especially if you're working it kind of like as a dialogue with the action where the actions of eat to the thought like it would dialogue then I think that they work to connect them in this instance we we've been she had an internal monologue so it separates it from the internal monologue she would have bound it after first meal that's her internal model not like happening and then we have a direct thought where our magnetism and I need them so in this case it's good to separate it because okay it'll almost be drawing together you're having an internal thought and then a direct internal thought to keep the bright orange guard fish right after that I did not make yes yes definitely keep it on the line with where a magnum is when they need them because then it connects because people are like what a Magnus so yeah and you did a good job of that I mean and I'm sorry if you guys have already said this I missed a bit you know like you're telling what a magma is but you're doing it in such a way it doesn't feel like telling I mean you did it really really well you're still very strong you know bringing into your and it just it just makes it really cool the way you say it and then you just move on yeah supposed to be Garibaldi's but you have all these fish are named after an explorer and it didn't make sense on a different planet yeah I love your world building Sophie how you doing a great job of putting us into this world right off the bat mm-hmm feel it and in some of the word choices and again if you guys already said this I'm sorry but like saying anyone within sight distance I mean just saying it like that is just like okay this is this is someone not from here and it's kind of poetic and I think that the last italicized part is also you know the morning light is more shadow than shine I love the chaos of that line so and then followed immediately by another you know I will find you so then right back into that tension and who is this person searching for her and you want her to hide and be saved yes I think it's a great story it has I'm not a huge fantasy person but I don't know what's going on I want to know why is she being chased by this kind of creepy sound in person and you know what's what's going on and what is this why is the morning more shadow than shine because usually in the ocean right there's a reason that there's more shadow than than shine is it cloudy on the outside is something happening so there's a lot of intrigue here that I don't have answers to and I'm one of inquiring minds want to know and the spoiler is that she's actually hiding from her sister who wants her to step up her may duties and wear tight fancy dress and she's hating this but in the next page so that's who she's hiding from but it makes you feel like there's no world invasion going on that nobody knows about some awesome I can't wait to read it about eight minutes left do we want to bring the others on to their to sentence and we come out of chair or leave the sheriff let's come out of share so we can see people better okay let's invite everybody in for our overall reaction about the see we tried today final comments did it feel horrible to be on the spotlight Sophia Logano and say anything or add anything in the if you can't get in I think we didn't take anybody off today so I think should everybody should be able to bring themselves back on if you want to come back on and they were good stories I mean I really you know there were very good thank you I learned a lot that's a new writer it's really it's hard you know I really have a English degree I'm a nurse that's awesome for both he used to go several of us heard Robert Benson and his book is dancing on the head of a pen not pen and yet he talks about the three hats that the writer wears what and Johnny help me remember them the first one is of what a beret maybe it's the creative I don't remember there was the creative here's the book but it it is the writing process that we can write down these originally then we have to go back and really put the different hat on and inch doesn't come the first draft and I think it's great like like with Ladon I mean yeah she's got a lot of you know the the was for being you know and all that through there but you know what when you're writing a first draft and if that's the way you want to write it write it get it written down get it on paper because it is real easy to go back then and take that and go oh there's another one and just change it through the past tense mom and goes so you can use the find in the word and then that'll help get through take one word at a time and go through and see how it can change that's one thing that look for new searches for those words in feel and and smile I always have to do searches for smile because my characters are smiling throughout the whole thing they smile all the time grinning so you know you just kind of know your triggers big yeah bit right it just write it get it down on paper and then go back and do this this fine craft work I mean you're a bad writer you're not you're just down and then you're gonna do the craft stuff yeah you're discovering what they call your crutch words and we'll all writers would have them and all writers end up making lists when they they know that they have those crutch words they always fall back on and was is one of mine too so I totally empathize with was I released my first manuscripts as was and then I have to go back in quickly I'll quickly mention a resource I found since I am the resource I found a an online service just randomly called Auto crit calm and I put that link into the chat and I happen to get in now it is a four fee service I happened to get in every once in a while they offer a lifetime membership for like 150 bucks and what you do is you import the text and it analyzes it it gives you a score and I love I love getting graded but with a presenter score out of a hundred you know but then what it does is it goes through and it'll ID five words that you've repeated it'll identify phrases that you have repeated it'll uh it'll pick out those passive voice indicators and it just does this analysis and you know some people have asked me you know how do you get such a great clean copy part of it is I never submit anything unless I've run it through Auto Chris and it's been a big big help to me so you can they have a free trial you know and if you're not a great editor some people are great at self editing but some of us need a little more help in and having in kind of and it's very is very objective you know it's not a subjective thing and it doesn't say oh you're a great writer or oh you're a terrible writer this is what's here so I you know I get no nothing they've not offered to compensate me I'm just telling you I found it very helpful to both grammarly and the Hemingway I didn't even I didn't know either of them before I got keyed into auto crit you know one comment that came up towards the end in the chat room and I think it was from dory said it was for Sophia that we really like how you've named your creatures very imaginative I don't know Sophia if you want to give us a quick tip on creative names for our characters like that you really do a nice job with that yes thank you it's I mean something like the Magma's that was really hard actually because I was trying to describe a fish that I know exists here but with science fiction and fantasy sometimes you have to be a little logical and say they wouldn't name a creature on a different planet after in Spanish and so then I thought well you know what's the color and I I brought it to mine that way and that's actually a little bit of foreshadowing because one of the disasters is that volcanoes are going to set off from the core leg so Magma's gonna play into that eventually um and i don't li you get a lot of critics too because people said well awkwardness makes me think of Aquaman and I'm like I can't help that I thought of this idea long before Aquaman well the latest movie and you can't always avoid references as popular so you kind of have to go with your gut and try not to play Joyce that's good insight anybody it is almost noon anybody have any final comments while you think if you want to jump in just before we go to the take it off recording and go to our after-party I will thank everybody I will do want to thank first of all I want to thank Norma for organizing this and LaDonna ed and Sophia for being so willing and I believe Melissa also sent something in if we had time so thank you for thank you you guys give us some feedback if you'd like this to do this occasion I really your little tips I made all sorts of little notes so I I do appreciate it real quick while we're on the recording there will be no writers chat next week we decided to do to the fourth of July holiday it's a busy week for people either having company and they're traveling or taking off or coming or going we just take a good summer break though we will miss next week's writers chat but we will be back July 9th we believe it's going to be Bethany sharing some of her new marketing tips that she learned when our trip to New York City to the book something I can't think with the a Association maybe I don't know what these days Amerika Amerika okay and she got to go there and I believe Rhonda was there too weren't you Rhonda yeah so Bethany's on stage to present that and July night and give us kind of an update I think that'll be a fun show – it always need marketing tips let's go in July 16th Jeannie is going to be in charge of that land and we are doing mid-year goal review so do that July 16th yes thinking about your goals and how you've been doing or not doing so and goes you might have sat in January and how you might want to have goals for the remainder of the year yeah kind of a reset July is a perfect time to reset on that winget kind of ready for the for some good action to finish well finish well talked about on that and we'll talk to Rhonda I've already named the show we might call it Rhonda's resource roundup I'm getting out my Western hat talk to you about a date she's scheduled because you are a wealth Alisa we appreciate all you guys we really do any last minute comments from anybody or especially for my co-host no it was fun we need to do it again okay well thank you thank you everybody and we'll we will see you in two weeks on the next writers chat bye now

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